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Author Topic: New Dwarf Mode  (Read 8153 times)

Meph

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2015, 07:10:16 am »

Is it possible to have a reaction train a skill up to a certain point and then do nothing? 'Cause my idea for toys would be as a building prerequisite for an "Apprentice's Studio", basically a training workshop with a bunch of free reactions that don't produce anything but can train practical crafting skills like carpentry and smithing. Ideally this would only train up to novice-level, and a player could restrict advanced workers from using it using the manager/burrows. I've seen children take jobs like harvesting so I'm pretty sure the only requirement for training kids is for the job to require no hauling, so a training workshop would probably only need to be set on repeat to have a few of them making themselves useful.
Yes, thats what the library does. Trains to proficient, then nothing.

Dwarven Daycare? :D Not sure if you can enable children in the workshop profile, never checked.

A dfhack script can do whatever you want, so I guess the library will do that. Otherwise the empty reactions are a good way to train your citizens.

Some feedback/questions:
- Dwarves might be fond of traps but do you think dwarves favor indirect or direct defense?
- I'm a bit lukewarm at dwarves using gnome tech, I guess they'll want to buy a seismograph to find valuables but factories are the gnomes signature feature.
- The brewery could upgrade existing drinks into more valuable and syndrome inducing drinks (for examples look at black roses to see what they do).
- Wood shield are too elfy and will be disregarded by players so don't worry about them.
Dwarves favour neither I think. The player decides if its traps or combat. Both is dwarvish if done right (bloody, stupid and complex enough)
I'm not sure about the factories either, because they are hard to set up and require input/output tiles. I mostly wanted to add them because people sometimes ask about conveyor belts and automated stuff, and I always have to say "guys, that already exists, you gotta play gnomes." I wanted to give them more exposure.
More valuable drinks I did in an early version, I did not like it. The issue is mostly that dwarves decide pretty much at random what they drink. Same with the syndromes. "Oh, you are injured? Drink this healing-syndrome super-booze... nope, he is going for the sewer brew. damn him".

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I can't imagine dwarves specifically setting up an arena for fighting things.
I do that all the time with all the captured wildlife and invaders, at least when I played vanilla DF or Genesis. But yeah, as a separate workshop... I should really remove it.

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The glass- stone- and gem- forges also seem a bit bloatish and undwarfy.  Actually, I can't think of any race that they really make sense for thematically.  They aren't especially useful, either.  Maybe remove them entirely?
I think weaponizing materials is dwarvish. Maybe the stone stuff is silly, because its too heavy, but glass ammo/spears or gem swords are extremely good in combat. Glass forge fits Succubi well, and I really want to keep the gem-forge.

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Although that does bring up the question of why they make musical instruments at all.
Yep, Tavern is mostly an idea because they already have instruments, so they probably make music. Even if Toady did not implement that yet.

The library stays, its the sole skill-learning workshop left. No guilds, remember? Dwarves that hoard books and build great knowledge seems to fit. How else do they keep track of all the metallurgy, mining and smithing techniques?

Alchemist is only metal-transmutation, using orichalcum. I plan to change it a bit, but it should just underline that dwarves know their stuff around metals.

I agree on ebonglass or at least on adding components to make special, non existent materials. It's even worse the crystal glass made better armors considering how much more fragile it is.

For gems the weapons were named 'gem tipped' weapons. I imagined a nondescript metal rod with a large gem tip. It still make no sense to make furniture out of an handful gems.
Yep, ammo and spears were gem-tipped. Other things were just "gem sword/axe/etc". They are actually really really sharp and cut through iron with ease. I give my militia often gem cutting weapons.
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Meph

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2015, 08:55:02 am »

Updated first post, removed Colosseum and automated factories from the list of buildings.
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Emperor

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2015, 09:28:05 am »

Focusing dwarves too much seems like a bad idea, imo...I mean, the dwarves are the first race any new player would be playing, because they are familiar from vanilla. Perhaps, instead of making the humans a sneak-peek on other races content, let the dwarves fill this role? A little bit of magic, a touch of gnomish machinery, some firearms...It all seems to fit the dwarves, and will allow players get familiarized with MDF additions, before jumping in to some more specialized races.
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Meph

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2015, 09:55:31 am »

No. The mod throws enough at a new player, I dont want all kinds of mixed features "just to try out" in dwarf mode. Thats how it was previously.
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Emperor

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2015, 10:15:56 am »

No. The mod throws enough at a new player, I dont want all kinds of mixed features "just to try out" in dwarf mode. Thats how it was previously.

No, no, no. I don't want to make dwarf mode cluttered and overdone again. I just...well, from my personal experience I can say that many players of the, for example, gnome mode are people who experimented with minecart tracks and workshop automation in dwarf mode. Similary, someone wanting to play a little bit more with magic would go play the Warlocks.

All I am saying is that, with proper organization of the content in dwarf mode, we could put new players in better position to try out the other modes.
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Meph

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2015, 10:25:58 am »

We have similar ideas.

Dwarves => Introduction, easiest to get into. But you forgot that there is lots of general mod content that affects all races. This is the time for players to get comfortable with it. Once they done that, they can try another race, humans are the easiest next and give a view into all races.
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Nevets_

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2015, 10:49:11 am »

I really like the idea of dwarven daycare, if it's possible.  Could it work like the weightbench, leveling up attributes, or are those not present in children / lost when turning into an adult?  A reaction that uses toy swords to increase agility, toy forges to increase endurance, etc. would be really cool and make fort-born children much more desirable than immigrants.  Plus anything that would keep kids busy and stop them from doing deconstruction jobs is a big plus.
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Meph

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2015, 11:04:29 am »

Making these reactions is easy, but limiting it to kids is hard. I think thats only possible by not using labor-specific skills, then only permitting children as worker with profiles.
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chilller6

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2015, 11:17:57 am »

A little bit of magic, a touch of gnomish machinery, some firearms...

I think the only dwarves that ever use firearms are the ones in World of Warcraft.. it seems dwarvy lol but I don't think it will fit.
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qorthos

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2015, 11:19:27 am »

A little bit of magic, a touch of gnomish machinery, some firearms...

I think the only dwarves that ever use firearms are the ones in World of Warcraft.. it seems dwarvy lol but I don't think it will fit.

And warhammer.  I like my dwarves to have gunpowder.  It feels right =]
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Meph

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LMeire

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2015, 03:32:10 pm »

Making these reactions is easy, but limiting it to kids is hard. I think thats only possible by not using labor-specific skills, then only permitting children as worker with profiles.

Doesn't the manager let you restrict a workshop to certain skill-levels? Just set the workshop to a maximum skill of dabbling and anyone novice-above should ignore it.
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Meph

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2015, 06:28:14 pm »

Possible. I can test this, but most players would have adult dwarves running around in the dwarven daycare as well. :D
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Vitellozzo

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2015, 07:11:34 pm »

I hope that dwarves will have plump helmet men into them too.
I've never tried them, but that's since I'm a MW newbie. I've dreamed many times about those crazy mushroom men that try to kill your dorfes because they are costantly used as cannon fodders and as a meal or a drink!
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Meph

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Re: New Dwarf Mode
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2015, 07:34:04 pm »

I plan to. Optional mod of course.. depends if IndigoFenix updates it, or if I do it myself. There is only one thing I dislike about them, and that is that they give over 100 drinks per plump helmet men you butcher. Or 100 meat, which brewed is 500 units or so... something ridiculously high.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::
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