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[Meph]

Sorry for spreading this out so far, but I need more space for ideas.

Dwarf Mode

Creature:
Vanilla DF dwarves. No special castes (No Guilds, Mages, etc). Finished!

Pets:
Vanilla DF pets. Finished!
Wannabeheros DDD pets (moleweasels, leatherwing bats, etc).Finished!
Landmine, Golem, Turret, less variants than now.

Weapons:
Vanilla DF weapons. Finished!
Javelin Thrower as high-end crossbow.Finished!
Two-handed vanilla DF weapons, but cost more bars. Finished!
Training weapons for all skills. Finished!
No throwing weapons. (ammo conflicts) Finished!
Battlepick. Finished!

Trapcomps:
Vanilla DF trapcomps. Finished!
Pump Mechanism. (cheap screw pump comp) Finished!
Razor Wire. (shallow, multiple hits) Finished!

Ammo:
Vanilla DF ammo. (piercing) Finished!
Broadhead and Hammerhead (cutting and blunt) Finished!
Same for Javelins. (large bolts)Finished!

Armor:
Vanilla DF armor. Finished!
Plate armor. Costs more bars. Finished!
(optional: Simplified armor. No high/low boots for example, only "boots")

Clothing:
Vanilla DF clothing. Finished!
(optional: Simplified clothing. No socks, dresses, skirts, turbans, togas) Finished!

Shields:
Vanilla DF shields Finished!
Kite shield / tower shield. costs more bars. Finished!
PROBLEM: You can still make them from 1 wood in the carpenter. -.-

Tools:
Vanilla DF tools Finished!
Additionally enabled vanilla tools: mortar, pestle, cauldron. Used in metalworks and alchemy/chemistry. Finished!

Toys:
Vanilla DF toys. Finished!
PROBLEM: I dont know any use for them. (previously replaced with Illumination, but I wont do that again)

Plants & Trees:
Vanilla DF, no additions. There are enough now. Finished!

Metals:
Cobalt. Iron alternative made from Cobaltite. Cant be made into pig iron/steel. Finished!
Mithril. Lightweight steel alternative made from silver.Finished!
Blessed Silver. Extra damage against nightcreatures/werebeasts/undead, made from silver.
Volcanic. Steel-Upgrade, made from steel, mithril, obsidian and magma.Finished!
Tungsten. Very heavy blunt weapon/siege ammo metal made from wolframite.Finished!
Orichalcum. Epic metal. 1% in all ores, smelt 100 bars, get 1 bar orichalcum.Finished!
Simplified Metal option (removing ornamental stuff like pewter and electrum etc)

Nobles:
Same as vanilla DF. Finished!
(harder noble option, they need bette rooms and make more demands/mandates)

Instruments:
Same as vanilla DF. Finished!
Maybe: Will get one song each in a workshop for AoE buffs.

Workshops:
All vanilla reactions as they are. Finished!
All vanilla workshops as they are. Finished!

New workshops:

• Stone/Wood/Bone/Gem-Crafter. (Basic workshops for items) Finished!
• Stoneforge (Rock weapons/armor)
• Gemforge (Gem weapons/armor)
• GlassForge (Glass weapons/armor)
• Crucible (better steel, mithril, wolfram)Finished!
• Blast Furnace (mass metal making)Finished!
• Metallurgist (alloy making)Finished!
• Finishing Forge (fuel-less copper, tin and bronze making)
• Weaponry (increase quality of weapons)
• Armory (increase quality of armors)
• Rune Weaponry (add runes with special effects)
• Rune Armory (add runes with special effects)
• Metal Siegeworks (metal siege engines/ammo)Finished!
• Trap Engineer (upgrades trap-comp quality)
• Libraries and Scriptorium. (learn skills quickly to proficient)Finished!
• Crematory (ash and coke making)Finished!
• Brick Oven (colored bricks for megaprojects)Finished!
• Weight Bench (phys. attr. increase)Finished!
• Wood Splitting Block (wooden planks)Finished!
• Furniture Shop (sets of furniture)Finished!
• Tailors Shop (sets of clothing)Finished!
• Brewery (?)
• Embassy (call migrants, caravans, maybe sieges)Finished!
• Decorations (will come last, ornamental only)
• Volcanic Foundry (volcanic metal making)Finished!
• Volcanic Golem Forge (golem making with orichalcum)
• Alchemist (metal transmutation, artificial gems)
• Chemist (oils, mercury, sulfur, brimstone, boom-stuff)
• Artificer (using boom-stuff to make landmines/turrets)
• Archeologist's Chambers (restore relics/fossils, less strong than before)
• Lorestone (some dwarven rock magic, minor addition)
• Personal Shrine (pray/sacrifice items, less strong than before)

What do you guys think? This is my idea for the streamlined dwarf mode. I might add a few small things here and there, like a Shrine for basic religion or a Lorestone for basic rune-magic, but nothing as large as in the current version. (5 religious buildings, 8 magic ones) A tavern for the instruments too. And a use for toys is still missing. Toy hammers? Mini-Forges?

[caekdaemon]

Most of it looks great to me, but can you please keep the Illuminations in the game, if only as decor?

I like to use them as decorations around my castles to help make the castle look more full, with braziers sitting on the walls and towers and in the throne room, while I put fireplaces in the noble rooms to act as hearths.

Pretty please?  Of course I'm playing human, always have and always will, so as long as they have them I'm happy.

[Meph]

Yes, they will still be there as deco buildings using Twbt. But not as items with their own stockpile.

[caekdaemon]

Yes, they will still be there as deco buildings using Twbt. But not as items with their own stockpile.

Ah, phew! You had me worried there :p

[LMeire]

Is it possible to have a reaction train a skill up to a certain point and then do nothing? 'Cause my idea for toys would be as a building prerequisite for an "Apprentice's Studio", basically a training workshop with a bunch of free reactions that don't produce anything but can train practical crafting skills like carpentry and smithing. Ideally this would only train up to novice-level, and a player could restrict advanced workers from using it using the manager/burrows. I've seen children take jobs like harvesting so I'm pretty sure the only requirement for training kids is for the job to require no hauling, so a training workshop would probably only need to be set on repeat to have a few of them making themselves useful.

[Boltgun]

A dfhack script can do whatever you want, so I guess the library will do that. Otherwise the empty reactions are a good way to train your citizens.

Some feedback/questions:
- Dwarves might be fond of traps but do you think dwarves favor indirect or direct defense?
- I'm a bit lukewarm at dwarves using gnome tech, I guess they'll want to buy a seismograph to find valuables but factories are the gnomes signature feature.
- The brewery could upgrade existing drinks into more valuable and syndrome inducing drinks (for examples look at black roses to see what they do).
- Wood shield are too elfy and will be disregarded by players so don't worry about them.

[IndigoFenix]

Looks good!  Although I do think there's still a bit too much feature bloat...

The gnomish things probably shouldn't be in dwarf mode, with the possible exception of the Drilling Rig.  Quite apart from the unlikeliness that dwarves would be able to design an oscilloscope, the seismograph and excavation site are more suited for a cautious playing style, that tends to lead to a fort made up of small tunnels going every-which-way, some of which are expanded into rooms afterwards.  It seems more dwarfy to carve out wide, open, magnificent halls, collect gems they find by chance, and mine out metal veins as they go.  And the automated factories...nah.  The reason why I specify the Drilling Rig is because it's functionally a better version of a pump stack, and seems low-tech enough for dwarves to build.

As for the Colosseum, I think that should be exclusive to Orcs.  Dwarves might enjoy the thrill of battle, but they probably need a reason to fight.  I can't imagine dwarves specifically setting up an arena for fighting things.  Possibly even the weight bench.  Real Dwarves get all the muscle they need working the forges and tunneling through stone, why would they bother lifting rocks?

The glass- stone- and gem- forges also seem a bit bloatish and undwarfy.  Actually, I can't think of any race that they really make sense for thematically.  They aren't especially useful, either.  Maybe remove them entirely?

The musical tavern seems more of a human or elf thing (well, not tavern for elves, but magic music certainly suits them).  Maybe even orcs, with war drums.  Dwarves don't seem to be especially known for musical instruments, though.  Singing ballads together over mugs of beer, maybe, but watching a flutist's stage performance?  I doubt it.  Although that does bring up the question of why they make musical instruments at all.

As for the scriptorium... While dwarves are known for their literacy, this is probably mostly in the form of carving their histories on walls, which they already do.  The warlocks, on the other hand, would benefit greatly from the ability to learn from books.  Maybe keep library stuff exclusive for them, instead.

Also, I'd say hold off on the alchemist for now.  Designing a high-end alchemy system that connects all the races in some way might be an interesting idea, but that'll have to be carefully planned out.

Everything else seems to suit dwarves perfectly.

Don't worry about not having a use for the toys, every race can have some things that are just for flavor.  It's interesting in adventure mode, since the game tracks the motions of items through trade, to an extent.  If you come to a human town and find piles of toy hammers and miniforges, you'll know that the citizens of the town are on good terms with the dwarves.

[Vitellozzo]

The gnomish things probably shouldn't be in dwarf mode, with the possible exception of the Drilling Rig.  Quite apart from the unlikeliness that dwarves would be able to design an oscilloscope, the seismograph and excavation site are more suited for a cautious playing style, that tends to lead to a fort made up of small tunnels going every-which-way, some of which are expanded into rooms afterwards.  It seems more dwarfy to carve out wide, open, magnificent halls, collect gems they find by chance, and mine out metal veins as they go.  And the automated factories...nah.  The reason why I specify the Drilling Rig is because it's functionally a better version of a pump stack, and seems low-tech enough for dwarves to build.

I agree with this. Drilling rig is something dwarves could use, for instead for acquifer regions, where you must fight with the water to progress digging. But all those others don't fit too much dwarves: yes, they are great miners, but they tend to just mine and mine and mine and mine and mine for centuries until they have found what they were searching of: gems, metals and GOD TIER MOUNTAIN HEARTS. After all, in Tolkien they dug too much, and awakened ancient fire. This is because they were just digging straightforward.

The glass- stone- and gem- forges also seem a bit bloatish and undwarfy.  Actually, I can't think of any race that they really make sense for thematically.  They aren't especially useful, either.  Maybe remove them entirely?

I don't agree with this. Dwarves are master weaponsmiths and crafters, the best in the world. They just can make weapons out of everything, starting with their stones. And the fantasy is full of glass- and gem-made weapons!

Anyway, meph,

Pets:
Vanilla DF pets. Finished!
Wannabeheros DDD pets (moleweasels, leatherwing bats, etc).

This means we'll have both vanilla pets and classic masterwork pets together?
Sure it's lot of animals, but also lots of possibilities.

[IndigoFenix]

The glass- stone- and gem- forges also seem a bit bloatish and undwarfy.  Actually, I can't think of any race that they really make sense for thematically.  They aren't especially useful, either.  Maybe remove them entirely?

I don't agree with this. Dwarves are master weaponsmiths and crafters, the best in the world. They just can make weapons out of everything, starting with their stones. And the fantasy is full of glass- and gem-made weapons!

Sure they could, the question is, would they?  Glass, gems, and stone are pretty terrible materials for weapons and armor, in both real life and DF.  Gem encrusted weapons are nice and shiny, but a solid ruby sword would shatter in real life, and in DF can't cut squat (unless it's some kind of magic gem/glass, of course, but that's a whole different category).  At least wooden gear is lightweight.

[than402]

plus how many gems would be required to make a single ruby sword? I saw a video on the youtube about the matter, and the answer is: "more than any fortress would ever produce and would suck anyway. but it would be ludicrously expensive."

[Magnumcannon]

plus how many gems would be required to make a single ruby sword? I saw a video on the youtube about the matter, and the answer is: "more than any fortress would ever produce and would suck anyway. but it would be ludicrously expensive."

But hey, that's just a theory!

[Vitellozzo]

The glass- stone- and gem- forges also seem a bit bloatish and undwarfy.  Actually, I can't think of any race that they really make sense for thematically.  They aren't especially useful, either.  Maybe remove them entirely?

I don't agree with this. Dwarves are master weaponsmiths and crafters, the best in the world. They just can make weapons out of everything, starting with their stones. And the fantasy is full of glass- and gem-made weapons!

Sure they could, the question is, would they?  Glass, gems, and stone are pretty terrible materials for weapons and armor, in both real life and DF.  Gem encrusted weapons are nice and shiny, but a solid ruby sword would shatter in real life, and in DF can't cut squat (unless it's some kind of magic gem/glass, of course, but that's a whole different category).  At least wooden gear is lightweight.

I'm ok with this point. Maybe in fact gem weapons could become only artifact-like items. But in a fantasy world, do you want to use your glass to make weapons? It's just your decision, you could quickly equip a squad with glass weapons even in the early game, and that's just better than fighting barehanded or with wood weapons.
What could be done is a second level of glass? Have I read warglass somewhere, or did it just were made from my mind? Anyway there could be an hardened kind of glass to be used to make weapons.

[IndigoFenix]

Warlocks have a thing called Ebonglass, but that's probably intended to be magical.

[Magnumcannon]

Maybe their purpose is to be enhanced, and as just a physical weapon, they would suck, but when enhanced, they would be similar to steel grade or even better.

[Boltgun]

I agree on ebonglass or at least on adding components to make special, non existent materials. It's even worse the crystal glass made better armors considering how much more fragile it is.

For gems the weapons were named 'gem tipped' weapons. I imagined a nondescript metal rod with a large gem tip. It still make no sense to make furniture out of an handful gems.