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[IndigoFenix]

So Masterwork's starting from scratch with a new, plugin-based model, and that leaves large aspects of the game as-yet undetermined.  One idea I had was to create a plugin that improves both fortress mode and adventure mode by adding a set of wild monsters with a cohesive origin.

Most, if not all, of these monsters will be LARGE_PREDATORS (even the small ones) and high violence and bravery, causing them to ambush adventurers and attack relentlessly (but not OPPOSED_TO_LIFE, they should still be smart enough to run away if they're losing).  They will also all contain some kind of collectible item like a power crystal or something, which can be used by both fortresses and adventurers to do things.  The overall feel should be for a more 'gamey' world, swarming with dangerous creatures that can be slaughtered for rewards.  Many of the monsters will also have some unusual behaviors (single species with castes that all behave differently, for instance), making battles with them more interesting.

The lore should probably be something simple and fantasy-world friendly, like a magical race produced them using a kind of alchemy for creating life, which is why they all contain power crystals.  Maybe fort mode players can even use the crystals to summon their own monsters.

I haven't actually decided on the specific details of these monsters.  Maybe they should be able to take virtually any form, maybe they should have something in common to mark their origin.  Still collecting ideas at the moment.

[than402]

What about fey and such? They appear in virtually every mythology, they are mysterious and powerful and their motives are inscrutinable by humans. It would make perfect sense for them too come out of nowhere, attack an adventurer or a fortress for no good reason and disappear. If you can make them randomly generated too, even better

[Vitellozzo]

I love the idea, and I love the fey thing too!
This could add more to the whole, since those are not civ members, just natural forces of chaos to defend against!

[Meph]

LARGE_PREDATORS would be very rare in fort mode, only in savage regions and only 1-2 types per region. Using large creatures with many different castes will help with that.

I like the idea, has a bit of monster hunter feel and adds to Adv Mode. Maybe check out the Wanderers Friend first, because it also has lots of special items you make from killed creatures. The ideas might interlap.

Using the same idea on caverns would work too. I really want to ramp up the difficulty of caverns.

[IndigoFenix]

LARGE_PREDATORS would be very rare in fort mode, only in savage regions and only 1-2 types per region.

I'm pretty sure the wiki is wrong about that, actually.  My ROTMK mod is composed almost entirely LARGE_PREDATORS, and forts get a full mix of species regardless of local savagery.  (Maybe it means two different groups of predators can't show up at once?  I don't know.)

The fey idea sounds cool.  Although one thing I forgot was the limitation on graphics, so the castes of a single species can't be too different (say, humanoid fairies and fey lions showing up in a single cluster).  Fey of a single form with different colors should work, though - maybe each one could wield a different element.  Fire, ice, lightning, white ones can heal, black can poison, maybe some can buff their allies... or maybe they could be split up based on personality, some might be aggressive and some defensive, others might attack relentlessly and then flee at the moment they get an injury, etc.  (Personality values are fun to play with!)

[Meph]

Fair enough, I did take that info from the wiki. ^^

I'd go with large monsters, rather than too many interactions. Interactions are rather unfair when you are an adventurer. Maybe we can start with giving each magical attack a syn_class:magic or magic_attack, so that people can have protective items/castes that are immune/resistant.

[IndigoFenix]

Synchronizing adventure and fort syndromes can be done, with limited success.  I'd really wish that Toady would make an option for basing syndrome duration on turns rather than yearly time, though, since it makes short-term, intense syndrome effects like a brief unconsciousness or short-term bleeding attack almost impossible to synchronize (right now you can only full-heal by defeating the enemy and fast-traveling, which is itself unrealistic).  He said at one point he was going to (I asked him about it a while ago), but who knows when that'll happen.

Heat, cold, webs, and projectile shots are still fine.  My go-to stun spell is a frost web attack made from a fast-evaporating, freezing material.  It stuns creatures momentarily without cluttering up the place.

[Meph]

Cant you fully heal by using scripts or transformations?

[IndigoFenix]

A single-turn transformation in adventure mode still lasts for quite a bit of time (72 frames, where most creatures can move once every 5-10 frames).  I actually utilized this fact for my ROTMK mod, there's a rare plant (1-up mushroom) that transforms you into a tiny, virtually indestructable, flying, fast-moving creature that is too weak to damage anything.  It is basically a 'try again' item that fully heals you while also giving you enough speed to position yourself in a more advantageous spot or escape the area.

I don't really like to resort to writing scripts for regular creature behavior (or there'd be no end to it!), but a script might be the best option for a proper cure spell (healing one wound at a time, or restoring lost blood - it doesn't have to be an instant-full-heal, after all) or injury-inflicting spell (the slam script).

[Meph]

Wouldnt hiding/escpaping be enough, considering that quick-travel heals you?

[IndigoFenix]

Wouldnt hiding/escpaping be enough, considering that quick-travel heals you?

Quick travel doesn't heal you entirely, it just heals everything that will heal in time: non-permanent syndromes and injuries to any body parts that heal eventually (although you can't quick-travel when bleeding heavily).

Hiding interactions no longer seem to do anything in DF2014, due to the new stealth/gait system.

[chaosfiend]

Sounds like a very intriguing idea. Fey might be a good idea for the race of sorts, but when I hear of creatures with a crystal heart or core, I think more, something of a more sorcerous flavour. Things like the Homunculi, Simulacra or maybe the more esoteric Tulpa of. Some sort of Artifical life, that is non-mechanical.

[IndigoFenix]

Sounds like a very intriguing idea. Fey might be a good idea for the race of sorts, but when I hear of creatures with a crystal heart or core, I think more, something of a more sorcerous flavour. Things like the Homunculi, Simulacra or maybe the more esoteric Tulpa of. Some sort of Artifical life, that is non-mechanical.

My original idea was indeed more homunculus-like, although nothing is decided yet.  It's possible to do both and to give homunculi-monsters and fae different items, although thematically I'd like to keep the creature-with-collectible-items-inside theme limited, to keep it from going overboard.  Giant spiders that inexplicably drop weapons and money when you kill them have their place in RPGs, but they don't really fit in the DF universe unless there is a very good reason for them to be carrying it around.

In a way, I'm kind of hoping this could be a replacement or addition to the roughly similar 'soul' system.  Butchering creatures in the butcher shop and physically removing their soul seems a little...off.  Warlocks could use some DFHack method instead.

[Meph]

How about blobs filled with gems for the caverns? I made some easy/small ones as one of the first features for Masterwork.

Animated armors or magic weapons can also leave armor and weapon items upon death.

[SabbyKat]

I would think aiming to do this as a 'replacement' for forgotten beasts/Titans would be a good concept, as that sounds like what you plan. Key issue I see with FB, and lesser so with FB, is they're too damn random. a good 90% I find are laugh out loud weak. OH NO, A SNOW TITAN! He... melted. Oh god, a leaf titan! *explodes from 1 arrow*. Yes we got red dragons, and all that - but I can attest I've seen... red dragons, wyerns (2-3 types) and that's about it, with a Thunderbird 3x out of my 1000+ forts. Never seen another 'static beast' on the surface beyond those 3 types.

I'm not certain you can per-say replace them, but design the system to act as an augment to that would be a wise move, especially if you can tie it in, so there's some restrictions to how often/when they'll begin to appear on the map, or else you'll have the issue of these 'super nasty beasts' spawning the moment you embark a fort, and being massacred as happens with Giant Gargoyles and Nightwings to a lesser extent, basically a 100% game over with no hope.

Once you clarify the above - I'll gladly help throw ideas around, I make monsters for my stories for fun and have a huge array of things that might fit your ideas, without being overly generic.