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[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

How is it not a main game?
It's we in the same world, it's got many of the same danger, and there are even some of the same factions in it
Ex: brotherhood of steel

[pisskop]

How is it not a main game?
It's we in the same world, it's got many of the same danger, and there are even some of the same factions in it
Ex: brotherhood of steel

You mean the Brotherhood of Tolerance?

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

What?

[USEC_OFFICER]

It'd probably help matters if you talked about what Fallout game you're defending here, since what you said could easily apply to 3 or NV...

[pisskop]

Botherhood of Steel from 3 has different code of conduct than any other game, iirc.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

It'd probably help matters if you talked about what Fallout game you're defending here, since what you said could easily apply to 3 or NV...

New Vegas
We were just talking about if it counted as a main game or not

Botherhood of Steel from 3 has different code of conduct than any other game, iirc.

Was still called brotherhood of steel in NV

[NullForceOmega]

It has always been the Brotherhood of Steel, the point is that their behavior in Fallout 3 is inconsistent with their established behavior in the Black Isle series (1, 2, Tactics, etc.)  Even their fundamental internal structure is wrong in 3.  Having Knights be part of the Paladins, and three branches of Scribes for instance.

[XhAPPYSLApX]

New Vegas has a lot more stuff than 3, but it still just doesn't seem like "main" game, in the main games you are basically saving the world (What remains anyway.) in NV you're just taking a side in a battle on the Hoover Dam, sure, it could have major repercussions. Like if the legion wins, but you are still not doing much more than taking part in a battle. It's still my favorite anyway though.

[XhAPPYSLApX]

I don't know, New Vegas doesn't sound like a spin-off to me. Actually you could probably call Fallout 3 a spin-off while NV is the proper game, since 3 goes off and does it own thing in the Capital Wasteland, while NV deals with the NCR and other stuff directly connected to the old games. Admittedly Fallout 3 came first, but that just means that it could be a spin-off of 1/2, while NV was the proper sequel. Depends on how you want to look at things.

Well, to each their own, right? but yeah I get where your coming from. Hell, it even has Marcus from FO2... I personally think it's a good thing they took 3 away from the west, because we got a good chunk of situation going on over there. Not that I don't like going back there in NV by any means.

[USEC_OFFICER]

That's what I'm getting at, it depends on your point of view whether a certain game is a spin-off or not.

Spoiler: Probably Off-Topic Rambling (click to show/hide)

Also I don't mind Fallout being taken to another place, so long as it actually feels like a different place. Which Fallout 3 didn't achieve for me, with all of the organizations and monsters from the west coast appearing for no good reason besides the fact that it's a Fallout game. Though that's probably why I loved the Pitt and Point Lookout so much, since they actually felt like their own places with special monsters, organizations and similar things. Either that or because they felt more... post-post-apocalyptic, for lack of a better term, than the Capital Wasteland. Fallout 3 always had a sense that the bombs had dropped a couple of months before that the other Fallout Games didn't have, with all of the buildings so relatively intact and still full of lootable objects which should have been snapped up long before. Whereas Fallout 1/2 had the sense that the bombs had fallen long before, and people had picked themselves up out of the wreckage and were making their own societies. Or something like that.

[XhAPPYSLApX]

That's what I'm getting at, it depends on your point of view whether a certain game is a spin-off or not.

Spoiler: Probably Off-Topic Rambling (click to show/hide)

Also I don't mind Fallout being taken to another place, so long as it actually feels like a different place. Which Fallout 3 didn't achieve for me, with all of the organizations and monsters from the west coast appearing for no good reason besides the fact that it's a Fallout game. Though that's probably why I loved the Pitt and Point Lookout so much, since they actually felt like their own places with special monsters, organizations and similar things. Either that or because they felt more... post-post-apocalyptic, for lack of a better term, than the Capital Wasteland. Fallout 3 always had a sense that the bombs had dropped a couple of months before that the other Fallout Games didn't have, with all of the buildings so relatively intact and still full of lootable objects which should have been snapped up long before. Whereas Fallout 1/2 had the sense that the bombs had fallen long before, and people had picked themselves up out of the wreckage and were making their own societies. Or something like that.

Good point, man. But in retrospect, I just don't care about those facts that much. I think the reason why I don't care as much about all of this, is that I played FO3 first, whereas if I played FO1 or 2 first then I would care about it a lot more.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Oddly enough so did I.

[Flying Dice]

It has always been the Brotherhood of Steel, the point is that their behavior in Fallout 3 is inconsistent with their established behavior in the Black Isle series (1, 2, Tactics, etc.)  Even their fundamental internal structure is wrong in 3.  Having Knights be part of the Paladins, and three branches of Scribes for instance.

We all know that the real reason was that Bethesda was lazy and didn't care about the lore.

However! You can assuage that by pretending that it's because, as the DC Brotherhood has been out of contact for a good long while, the changes in their internal organization are naturally occurring corruptions and on-the-scene adjustments made to handle different operational directives. In the same way you can also explain the philosophical differences in the DC Brotherhood as the product of it being very much Elder Lyon's beast -- the people who tried to toe the line and stick to normal doctrine are the ones who became the Outcasts, which is fitting, since they're much more in line with normal Brotherhood behavior.

The main DC Brotherhood under Lyons is basically the descendent-equivalent of the UN (with lasers and giant nuclear robots) rather than the U.S. Army (which is, IIRC, what the Brotherhood originally drew from), at least in philosophical terms. Lyons affected a change in the basic goals of his splinter group from the expedition for personal reasons, and those who refused to join became the Outcasts, performing the Brotherhood's traditional functions as best they could..

[XhAPPYSLApX]

I was actually thinking about making a mod for NV at one point, basically I wanted to remake FO1 and 2 in New Vegas. But then I realized that I had little to no scripting knowledge, and that up to this point I've only made silly weapon mods

[NullForceOmega]

That's an interesting comparison FD, and not one that I had considered, most of my problem with F3 stems from the apparent inability of Bethesda to even be consistent within the games' own lore.  The Capital Wasteland is probably the best constructed physically of the Fallout games, but as far as internal consistency, it is just an agonizing mess.  One thing asserts that nearly 200 years have passed since the bombs fell, but Rivet City was founded a meager 40 years prior to the game by, and I quote directly from the game 'Survivors of the Naval Research Institute', an organization that would have been simply absent from the setting for around 120 years by that point.  Little Lamplight makes my very soul bleed due to the totally impossible backstory, my thoughts on this particular bit of nonsense, "So you're trying to tell me that less than a hundred children have been holed up in a defunct mine living in some kind of 'lord of the flies' society, and have managed through mystical means to have not been brutally killed by their super-mutant neighbors two hundred years?"  Yeah, no, calling absolute B.S. on that one.  Many of the inconsistencies are just annoying, but that one almost made me ragequit.