Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BlackHeartKabal]

Deadliest mass shooting in US history, over inane hatred.
I can't, just can't fathom why?
What reason would anyone have for this? What inspires someone to do things like this?
Why?

I dunno, fanatical, zealous hatred of gay people and Americans?

And this day is going to pass, and no true change will come out of this, will it? People are inevitably going to put up rainbow flags in solidarity, sure, relevant voices are going to speak, but nothing is going to truly change from this one event, even with how bad it is, just like every other tragedy.

Except they now can make change, by voting in a candidate who has a strong stance against Muslims.

Trump seems to have just netted himself the presidency by a stroke of luck that I suspect I brought up somewhere in this thread a long time ago.

I don't concern myself much with politics besides the biased stuff I happen to glimpse at.
What are Trump's policies on important matters and stuff, so I know what to expect?

[Morrigi]

Edit: Ninja'd

Trump is a nationalist who wants to return manufacturing to the US, temporarily ban Muslim immigration, build a wall on the Mexican border, leave the question of recreational marijuana up to the states and legalize medical MJ, have friendly relations with Russia, and bash the media for being a bunch of borderline libelous whores. The next four years will be interesting.

Edit 2: He's also very pro-military, but has repeatedly condemned America's "stupid wars" in the Middle-East, and has supported somewhat isolationist foreign policy.

[Wolfhunter107]

Isn't it a bit early to be calling the election?

[Morrigi]

Perhaps, but the worst mass shooting in American history as part of an Islamic terrorist attack is going to significantly affect the polls - assuming this guy was, in fact, an Islamic terrorist.

[wobbly]

Yeah, I don't see why people are assuming this will mean Trump wins either. If anything I suspect the opposite from this. We'll see.

[BlackHeartKabal]

Edit: Ninja'd

Trump is a nationalist who wants to return manufacturing to the US, temporarily ban Muslim immigration, build a wall on the Mexican border, leave the question of recreational marijuana up to the states and legalize medical MJ, have friendly relations with Russia, and bash the media for being a bunch of borderline libelous whores. The next four years will be interesting.

Edit 2: He's also very pro-military, but has repeatedly condemned America's "stupid wars" in the Middle-East, and has supported somewhat isolationist foreign policy.

The ban and wall are impractical for logistical and economic reasons, in my opinion. It seems like he's just very hamfisted in his solutions. I'm also not that enthusiastic about relations with Russia, but good international relations can never go wrong. Recreational MJ should be a states thing, medical MJ should be legalized and federal. Media bashing, not intervening where we don't have to, and keeping a large military for defensive purposes is something I can go along with.

I'm still nervous about having him as POTUS, though.

What about Hillary, since Sanders is effectively no longer a candidate?

[Playergamer]

Alright, I'm gonna put the events - what I can gather from news - in order here.

Saturday Night - Pulse is holding "Latin themed" event, packed.
2 A.M - Shooting starts outside club. Officer in area responds and opens fire. Suspect flees into club, and officer calls for SWAT.
2:01 - Suspect opens fire on dance floor with an automatic rifle, killing or wounding approximately 100. Shooting lasts around 3 minutes.
2:05-ish - Shooting inside club stops. SWAT arrives, but doesn't enter the building due to reports from inside that shooter is wearing a bomb vest. After clearing out the dance floor, shooter enters the bathroom, taking hostages.
2:10-ish? - EOD arrives. Mass casualty arrives. SWAT breaks down door with armored vehicle. 30 hostages are rescued before SWAT finds the shooter, firefight starts. Suspect is killed. One SWAT officer is shot, but the bullet bounces off his helmet, and only causes a minor eye injury.
Before 2:20 - SWAT confirms building is clear, mass casualty moves in and begins treating wounded. Wounded officer taken to hospital. EOD confirms no explosives are in building, and "bomb vest" was a chest rig for ammo.

Anything I missed? Times are more guesswork than I'd like, but should be decently accurate.

[Wolfhunter107]

Perhaps, but the worst mass shooting in American history as part of an Islamic terrorist attack is going to significantly affect the polls - assuming this guy was, in fact, an Islamic terrorist.

It might have some effect on the polls right now, but I think we're still too far out for it to have any appreciable effect in November.

E:
@Playergamer: no idea about times, but the sequence of events seems about right to me.

[Frumple]

Trump seems to have just netted himself the presidency by a stroke of luck that I suspect I brought up somewhere in this thread a long time ago.

Did he, though? The parents have apparently already made statements that this was more due to the guy being a massive homophobe than anything. Trump may be anti-muslim, but the party he's running with (and a fair chunk of the people intent on voting for him) is also substantially anti-LGBT, whereas the dems are substantially... well, not. I wouldn't be calling things in his favor, at this point, since this could be about as much a rallying point in that sense for clinton's electorate as trump's.

Above and beyond the stuff involved there, most of the folks that were against muslims enough for something like this to change their intended vote were already going to vote for 'im. And there's a good five months for it to become just another mass shooting, t'boot. Color me skeptical this is some kind of silver bullet for trump's campaign.

... definitely a tragedy, though. Won't lie, it's a little hard for me to feel much for it* when m'aware of florida's murder rate (it's indeed something notable when someone pulls off what's probably going to be in the ballpark of a 20th of the people killed this year, but...), but it's still damned unfortunate.

And nah PG, that looks roughly accurate from what I've seen so far. Considering this was, what, eight, nine hours ago? It's probably not as clear as it'll be in a day or two, but yeah.

*E: Well... bit of worry. I do actually have a few old friends that are gay or bi that are off in that general direction, last I checked. Might be time to send a couple messages, I'unno.

[mainiac]

I am willing to bet that nobody in this thread will be talking about this attack in two weeks.  By the election it will be a distant memory.

[Morrigi]

Edit: Ninja'd

Trump is a nationalist who wants to return manufacturing to the US, temporarily ban Muslim immigration, build a wall on the Mexican border, leave the question of recreational marijuana up to the states and legalize medical MJ, have friendly relations with Russia, and bash the media for being a bunch of borderline libelous whores. The next four years will be interesting.

Edit 2: He's also very pro-military, but has repeatedly condemned America's "stupid wars" in the Middle-East, and has supported somewhat isolationist foreign policy.

The ban and wall are impractical for logistical and economic reasons, in my opinion. It seems like he's just very hamfisted in his solutions. I'm also not that enthusiastic about relations with Russia, but good international relations can never go wrong. Recreational MJ should be a states thing, medical MJ should be legalized and federal. Media bashing, not intervening where we don't have to, and keeping a large military for defensive purposes is something I can go along with.

I'm still nervous about having him as POTUS, though.

What about Hillary, since Sanders is effectively no longer a candidate?

You'd be crazy or stupid not to be nervous. Trump is a wild card. But yes, he is in favor of legalizing MJ on a federal level. As for the economic feasibility of the wall, it depends. One question is what impact illegal immigration actually has on the economy, and whose statistics you believe - some say it's a net gain, some say it costs $100 billion a year, and the cost of the wall would only be $15-20 billion at most.

Hillary would basically be an angrier, more hawkish Obama with several times more partisan gridlock in Congress, who also might wind up getting us into a war with Iran, assuming she doesn't get indicted by the FBI. The latter is quite possible.

[Sergarr]

Clinton, indicted by FBI? For what, CIA being unable to keep their independent murder-boner in their pants and refusing to tell anyone who they're killing more than a few hours before the event?

[Frumple]

For magical sky unicorns of some sort, since the FBI is explicitly incapable of indicting anyone. Presumably talking about the email thing, though, and forgetting that the FBI can't actually do anything except hand off evidence with a recommendation attached.

[Vilanat]

Did he, though? The parents have apparently already made statements that this was more due to the guy being a massive homophobe than anything. Trump may be anti-muslim, but the party he's running with (and a fair chunk of the people intent on voting for him) is also substantially anti-LGBT, whereas the dems are substantially... well, not. I wouldn't be calling things in his favor, at this point, since this could be about as much a rallying point in that sense for clinton's electorate as trump's.

Above and beyond the stuff involved there, most of the folks that were against muslims enough for something like this to change their intended vote were already going to vote for 'im. And there's a good five months for it to become just another mass shooting, t'boot. Color me skeptical this is some kind of silver bullet for trump's campaign.

... definitely a tragedy, though. Won't lie, it's a little hard for me to feel much for it* when m'aware of florida's murder rate (it's indeed something notable when someone pulls off what's probably going to be in the ballpark of a 20th of the people killed this year, but...), but it's still damned unfortunate.

And nah PG, that looks roughly accurate from what I've seen so far. Considering this was, what, eight, nine hours ago? It's probably not as clear as it'll be in a day or two, but yeah.

*E: Well... bit of worry. I do actually have a few old friends that are gay or bi that are off in that general direction, last I checked. Might be time to send a couple messages, I'unno.

It is common for relatives of terrorists to try and portrait their actions as something else than Religious terrorism for a couple of reasons:
1) Neighbours prefer that the family next door bred a Gay killer than an Islamic terrorist. the implications are obvious. if it's an Islamic terrorist, that family is scary. if it's gays killer, that Kid was loco.

2) The family prefer it to be branded anything else other than Islamic terrorism because the authorities response is vastly different. with the latter we are looking at countless members of the family being questioned for countless hours for possible ties with radical Islam and all of them be put on the terror watch list.

3) The muslim community would openly assist the family if it's not an Islamic terrorism act. first, because in their teaching and behaviour, gays are absolute haram, and by watching the commentators names in the Independence, a lot of them would actually support his actions, second, because they don't have to spend time and money propagating that Islam is the religion of peace.

TL-DR - the father can say whatever he wants, he is even less relevant than any random chap at the street because he has a vested interest in having his child not branded as an Islamic terrorist.

[mainiac]

Yup any moment now that indictment fairy will show up and wave it's magical wand.

But let's take Iran for a second.  The biggest peace of news regarding Iran is the Iran nuclear deal.  The Iran nuclear deal is settling the major sticking point between the US and Iran.  Where do the candidates stand?

Clinton: "I support this agreement because I believe it is the most effective path of all the alternatives available to the U.S. and our partners to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon,"
Trump: "Never, ever ever in my life have I seen any transaction so incompetently negotiated as our deal with Iran"

And you say that Clinton is the one who might start a war with Iran?  Clinton is probably more hawkish then say Obama but that's nothing compared to Trump.