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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1569866 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19140 on: June 09, 2016, 03:44:59 pm »

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/09/politics/bernie-sanders-washington/
Bernie working with Clinton to maintain Democrat unity in the face of Trump

Quote
Sanders' first explicit promise on Thursday to join forces with Clinton to take on the Republicans will help quell concerns among Democrats about divisions in the party.
Emerging from the White House after a meeting with Obama that lasted more than an hour, Sanders warned that a Trump presidency would be a "disaster" and that he would "work as hard as I can to make sure that Donald Trump does not become president of the United States."
"I look forward to meeting with (Clinton) in the near future to see how we can work together to defeat Donald Trump and to create a government which represents all of us and not just the 1%," Sanders told reporters.
Oioi democrats are back on the table

KingofstarrySkies

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19141 on: June 09, 2016, 03:45:59 pm »

What was the problem with monarchy, again? :P
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19142 on: June 09, 2016, 03:49:12 pm »

What was the problem with monarchy, again? :P
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BFEL

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19143 on: June 09, 2016, 03:52:57 pm »

Actually I'm starting to like this. If the Democratic party realized that they are so out of touch that they lost to Donald Trump, then they might actually get their shit together.
This is a significant portion of why I've been in support of Trump.
Unless he manages to go full Hitler, which I can't see happening, he will ultimately be better in the long run then the others.
And better all around then Clinton, who is fucking insane in several ways.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19144 on: June 09, 2016, 04:06:18 pm »

And better all around then Clinton, who is fucking insane in several ways.

How so? She seems like a pretty bog standard centrist politician to me.
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19145 on: June 09, 2016, 04:18:09 pm »

I get the appeal of the "chaos for the sake of chaos/change" idea, but it seems really inappropriate for our situation.  In my opinion the two largest problems are protecting the environment and the middle/lower class.

Trump would just exacerbate environmental issues as a proud short-sighted capitalist.  Which wouldn't raise awareness because those problems build slowly, over decades.

But maybe if he screws the lower class hard enough, people will get upset?  ...I think people are already upset enough about the economy, I don't see how shafting it further is supposed to help.
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19146 on: June 09, 2016, 05:04:46 pm »

I get the appeal of the "chaos for the sake of chaos/change" idea, but it seems really inappropriate for our situation.  In my opinion the two largest problems are protecting the environment and the middle/lower class.

Trump would just exacerbate environmental issues as a proud short-sighted capitalist.  Which wouldn't raise awareness because those problems build slowly, over decades.

But maybe if he screws the lower class hard enough, people will get upset?  ...I think people are already upset enough about the economy, I don't see how shafting it further is supposed to help.

Because small incremental changes to address these issues (especially when explicitly focused on reducing the rate at which specific types of damage are accumulating, and not actually solving the root causes of damage or fixing damage already done) are not, and likely never will be, enough to match and reverse the rate at which these problems are increasing in gravity.

And if I've learned anything about political culture in my adult life, it's that the vast majority of people will not be motivated to directly address a problem until it is literally kicking in their door.  Trump would be more likely than anyone to make sure those problems are kicking in everyone's door.  Which means people would be motivated to address them sooner, than they would be if allowed to continue worsening at a steady pace as they have been, where by the time people are motivated the problems will be much, much worse.

For comparison, people like to point out environmental issues from the past that were actually addressed strictly enough to result in real improvement (instead of "hey we slowed down the destruction a little bit").  And those problems were 'kicking in your door' type problems, such as the Cuyahoga River fires.  Problems that were sensational.  They created a spectacle that was easy to create interest over, and that no one could argue the problematic nature of.  Today's problems are so remote-seeming to most people that they don't generate interest.  They're so very much worse in scale, but the symptoms are hidden away from the awareness of the average voter.  This is not my own little homebrew political theory.  I have spoken with many, many people who believe the environment is no longer a concern, because they can link to past environmental issues like the Cuyahoga River fires and say "The environment used to be so bad that RIVERS CAUGHT ON FIRE.  You don't see crazy shit like that anymore, so why should I believe that things are worse now?!"

The environment can recover pretty easily from singular, localized fuck-ups that create a short-term spectacle, and that is Trump's core nature.  It can't recover from the type of damage that accumulates and grows over time on a global scale, but is regulated away from having direct impact on anyone with enough political voice to be a concern.

We are really in a desperate place right now, and we absolutely can not afford another generation of things continuing as they have been.  And I'm not saying that putting Trump in power for these reasons is necessarily a good idea, so don't fucking dogpile me.  I'm just explaining why people would entertain the idea.  It's more than "I'm not happy, so let's make some chaos and see what happens".
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 05:08:55 pm by SalmonGod »
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19147 on: June 09, 2016, 05:21:20 pm »

Can I please remind everybody that there's a supreme court position on the line. Can I please remind everyone that there are still trans bathroom laws popping up in states across the country, and the demonization of trans people is going to be a uniting issue of the ascendant Republican party under Trump. Can I please remind everyone that we're not trying to stop Hitler, we're trying to stop Mussolini.
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19148 on: June 09, 2016, 05:30:12 pm »

and the demonization of trans people is going to be a uniting issue of the ascendant Republican party under Trump.
sauce plz.
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19149 on: June 09, 2016, 05:37:38 pm »

Can I please remind everybody that there's a supreme court position on the line. Can I please remind everyone that there are still trans bathroom laws popping up in states across the country, and the demonization of trans people is going to be a uniting issue of the ascendant Republican party under Trump. Can I please remind everyone that we're not trying to stop Hitler, we're trying to stop Mussolini.
Can I please remind everyone that both those men were eventually stopped with a bullet, not a vote.
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19150 on: June 09, 2016, 05:39:59 pm »

Is it time for the regularly scheduled 2AR fight?
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nenjin

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19151 on: June 09, 2016, 05:48:11 pm »

and the demonization of trans people is going to be a uniting issue of the ascendant Republican party under Trump.
sauce plz.

I don't think there's any sauce to it, it's just not a hard assumption to make. It's a "uniting issue" for Trumplicans just like "immigration" and "Muslims" are. I don't think it's "the" issue though. To them it's just one sign of why they think the country is backsliding, getting to PC, whatever. I personally doubt that Bathroom Bills are going to be the issue that rallies the whole Republican base to Trump though.

So, another reason why we might want to actually not want to burn everything down come November. Either the ruling will stand, or it'll end up in the Supreme Court (rather unlikely). This, along with the many other cases delayed due to the split court, will almost entirely be decided by who wins in November.

Hah. Great. That'll drive up Republicans into a frenzy. There's still no guarantee that Hilary winning = No constitutional right to carry a concealed firearm in public though. Many judges to choose from, they have to pass confirmation and even then....Roberts surprised a lot of people by not being as aggressively conservative as many expected him to be.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 06:55:43 pm by nenjin »
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19152 on: June 09, 2016, 06:12:37 pm »

And better all around then Clinton, who is fucking insane in several ways.

How so? She seems like a pretty bog standard centrist politician to me.
Well glossing over the email stuff and Bengazi and etc.
She has zero qualms about starting a war with Russia over some two bit dictator in "our people live in huts-stan" because apparently a good warring will get people to forget the scuzzy shit she's been up to

And while I'm not gonna harp on the emails thing her reaction to it was incredible. I have no idea how someone can spend their life cultivating an image of being a ruthless, titanium ovaried bitch and then slip into the "ditzy old woman" routine as soon as someone looks too closely at her.
I mean for fucks sake how do you even IMAGINE this would fool anyone?
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19153 on: June 09, 2016, 06:17:22 pm »

And better all around then Clinton, who is fucking insane in several ways.

How so? She seems like a pretty bog standard centrist politician to me.
Well glossing over the email stuff and Bengazi and etc.
She has zero qualms about starting a war with Russia over some two bit dictator in "our people live in huts-stan" because apparently a good warring will get people to forget the scuzzy shit she's been up to


[CITATION NEEDED]
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19154 on: June 09, 2016, 06:18:49 pm »

I don't think there's any sauce to it, it's just not a hard assumption to make. It's a "uniting issue" for Trumplicans just like "immigration" and "Muslims" are. I don't think it's "the" issue though. To them it's just one sign of why they think the country is backsliding, getting to PC, whatever. I personally doubt that Bathroom Bills are going to be the issue that rallies the whole Republican base to Trump though.

How quickly you forget. This isn't even the first time it's come up! Some people around here seem willing to just assign any negative trait they please to Trump in particular and the GOP in general without really looking at it.
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