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[Frumple]

Court, (n.); A system that judges the existence, culpability, and results of infractions of some or all forms of law.

"Colleges should not be allowed to set up their own courts." -MetalSlimeHunt

Sure! They're not. What these arbitration courts decide has nothing to do with any form of law. They don't judge the existence of laws, they don't determine cupability in relation to laws, and they have nothing to do with the results of infractions against laws. Unless, again, there is some really weird shit going on I can't remember hearing about.

The school code of conduct, and the various powers given to the school by the contracts signed, are not laws in any sense of the word I'm familiar with.

... now, if you want to gripe about contract law, good gods do you have a lot of room to gripe about contract law. There's a lot of room to gripe about contract law.

Regardless, there's a legally established principle that a contract that lacks basic fairness isn't enforceable or allowable.

Yeeeaaaaaahhh, there is, but it's in a very, very conceptual sense. Contract law rulings (well, besides "GTFO of my courtroom") in regards to that sort of thing almost never happens except when people of diminished mental capacity are involved. There is a freaking ridiculous amount of wiggle room if both parties are of sound and legally competent mind. What the schools are doing isn't even scratching the surface of that damned pit of horrors, heh.

Your sense of basic fairness (mine, too, and probably most people's) and what our legal system considers basic fairness is... very different. It's one of those cases where the general use word is not really 1:1 in meaning with the technical use in the field in question.

[mainiac]

Court, (n.); A system that judges the existence, culpability, and results of infractions of some or all forms of law.

You literally did not make it one iota less vague.  Looking at this from one side you are saying that if a college has so much as an HR department you have a problem with it.  Looking at it from another side you dont mind if colleges do anything other then literally try to duplicate the US legal system.

This vagueness is begging for people to start flaming each other because they read the tea leaves you just laid out in different ways.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Court, (n.); A system that judges the existence, culpability, and results of infractions of some or all forms of law.

"Colleges should not be allowed to set up their own courts." -MetalSlimeHunt

Sure! They're not. What these arbitration courts decide has nothing to do with any form of law. They don't judge the existence of laws, they don't determine cupability in relation to laws, and they have nothing to do with the results of infractions against laws. Unless, again, there is some really weird shit going on I can't remember hearing about.

The school code of conduct, and the various powers given to the school by the contracts signed, are not laws in any sense of the word I'm familiar with.

... now, if you want to gripe about contract law, good gods do you have a lot of room to gripe about contract law. There's a lot of room to gripe about contract law.

They are doing that. Sexual assault being against the code of conduct is irrelevant to this when the school takes upon itself to enact what can only be described as prosecution completely outside the public court system. A private body has no right, none whatsoever to independently take all the steps of arbitration that it can without themselves being arrested when what they're arbitrating on is also public law.

And I shall remind you that contract law is also subject to public arbitration when in contention, so they aren't even doing that right.

[Strife26]

A court is any body that can level sanctions against an individual, maybe?

[mainiac]

A court is any body that can level sanctions against an individual, maybe?

Sanctions can be anything from Starbucks taking away my loyalty card to Starbucks putting me to trial and then giving me lethal injection.  I have more objections to one of these.

[Strife26]

Yeah, but they're both reasonable things to care about. I don't think that Starbucks gets to unilaterally yoink the loyalty card I've spent money on, without me having a chance to argue or total form a class action if need be.


Obviously, there's different sorts of courts, for good reason.

[mainiac]

Okay but do these courts include both the US Supreme Court and the Starbucks barista who confiscates your loyalty card?

[Wolfhunter107]

In other news, Donald Trump now has enough delegates to secure the Republican nomination.
Kinda stating the obvious at this point, but hey.

[Frumple]

They are doing that. Sexual assault being against the code of conduct is irrelevant to this when the school takes upon itself to enact what can only be described as prosecution completely outside the public court system. A private body has no right, none whatsoever to independently take all the steps of arbitration that it can without themselves being arrested when what they're arbitrating on is also pubic law.

Except they kinda' do? A company will face little censor for firing, docking pay, etc., an employee who has violated public law (unless there's explicit laws against that, and, again, at-will is a thing.). Shit ain't exactly cheers and giggles if you steal from the company (or anyone else), and they're probably going to do significantly more to you than the courts will alone, depending on exactly what powers they have over you. They might not be able to explicitly fine you within the confines of the company's influence, but you prooobably signed away a whole hell of a lot when you signed those employment papers. Same concept, yeah. Far as I'm aware the actual law isn't really going to blink even if it happens when you're only suspected, either.

Like... if you want that sort of thing changed, cool. Pretty sure it's not particularly the state of things, though. And even then, you're probably dealing with a different framework with schools in particular just due to what they're doing and the nature of education certification and whatnot. Lot of the stuff that actually protects employees (or your average customers) doesn't protect students, last I checked. Which you could call bullshit on, but it's something fairly substantially different from what you an'strife's been talking about.

And I shall remind you that contract law is also subject to public arbitration when in contention, so they aren't even doing that right.

... are the students actually requesting legal arbitration? Are the contracts themselves actually in contention? It's not an automatic thing, mate, and it can't be invoked under all circumstances.

[nenjin]

Okay but do these courts include both the US Supreme Court and the Starbucks barista who confiscates your loyalty card?

Gonna go reductio ad absurdum now? One clearly has the power to malign your career, your rights as a citizen. The other costs you "free" things at Starbucks.

When the day comes that being a card holding member of Starbucks is vital to having an equal opportunity to success in this country, then yes, you could and might successfully argue that Starbucks is a "court" when they "weigh evidence" and "make a decision" and "issue sanctions."

Fact is, colleges carry with them the assumption of authority, by virtue of what they do and their place in American society. You seriously gonna walk into an employer who is asking about a rape accusation on your college history form and go and "Yeah, but, pfffttt, cmon, it's Stanford. I was never actually arrested."

You wouldn't, because that'd be moronic, because you understand that a "college" where you pay 5 figures to attend carries with it an authority in the minds of businesses, other schools, the government and society at fucking large, that other places do not.

You can easily define the issue if you take the time to weigh its actual impact against the life of the citizen. That shit changes over time too. Because of societal change, technology and a host of other shit.

The college rape investigator is there on the (fairly good chance) that police will be unable or unwilling to prosecute the crime. So I suppose the victim can feel they got some measure of justice despite no actual legal consequences occurring, if the college decides to side with the victim. Honestly though, it's there to provide a show of support and stave off a lawsuit by the victim that the college either created or did nothing to diminish an at-risk environment.

[Orange Wizard]

In other news, Donald Trump now has enough delegates to secure the Republican nomination.
Kinda stating the obvious at this point, but hey.

It was inevitable.

[Cruxador]

I'll be straightforward here: I have Voltaire quotes in my sig for a reason. I would throw in the most notable one if it weren't implied.

What does the Holy Roman Empire have to do with this?

[Strife26]

It's not even that absurd, I'd argue. If the Starbucks barrista is confiscating the loyalty cards of all the black customers, there definitely needs to be some manner of redress, just like there needs to be one if it's the government and the electric chair.

[Orange Wizard]

It's not even that absurd, I'd argue. If the Starbucks barrista is confiscating the loyalty cards of all the white male customers, there definitely needs to be some manner of redress, just like there needs to be one if it's the government and the electric chair.

Let's be realistic here.

[Shadowlord]

Wouldn't that be illegal?