Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Powder Miner]

The transgender bathroom laws are also a local thing. The West Virginia section of the Republican party, for example, has absolutely no plans to do anything similar and its goals really aren't social -- the Repubs here are much more fiscal than anything else. And yet they are right-wing.

[Reelya]

West Virginia Republicans recently banned one of the safest medical procedures for abortion however.

EDIT: I think the main relevant point, however is that they tend to use the social conservatism stuff to fire up their support base. Which does fit with the RWA profile: it's a profile of the supporters of social conservatism, not the leadership. In the wargames with only RWA types, nobody took the initiative and attacked each other, they just defended and refused to talk to each other or form alliances. So, yeah it's a personality profile that's a poor match for movement leaders but well correlated with being a follower.

If we think of it as being more correlated with social conservatism perhaps we can reconcile the viewpoints a bit better. Is there such a thing as left-wing social conservatism? Does that make sense? If not, then if we understand "authoritarianism" here to correlate with social conservatism, then it makes sense that there are many RWA people, but few LWA people.

[mainiac]

... I actually don't remember when that happened. Will admit I never paid much attention to anti-public transit arguments, mostly because the argument's won in the area I'm in and public transit barely exists. Tell us more?

Yeah looking back it wasn't huge, just a funny little example of derp.  It seems it crops up from time to time.
2014: http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/rush-limbaughs-whacked-out-mass
2009: http://www.alternet.org/story/141409/oh_no!_public_transit_is_a_marxist_plot!

[Max™]

You've triggered my semantic trap card! It's literally a credit card sized pressure switch that activates a miniature trebuchet which launches a deck of cards at your face.

So after doing more research about this presidency thing, you need to be 35 right?

I don't have to like cut off a leg and count rings to check this do I? I can remember Reagan's first term but I'm always forgetting how old I am.

Oh and on the part about "natural born citizen of the US", does that include "my mother got a headache one day and I fell fully formed from a crack in her forehead" type origin stories? Cause if not, I may have some awkward phone calls to make.

More seriously though I do think vocational schools should be more common, which goes hand in hand with the infrastructure needs that I will shout about from on top of my hover platform.

Who you gonna vote for, the shmuck standing meekly behind a podium or the guy riding a mechanical birdosaur?

[Shadowlord]

I'm sure Scrooge McDuck will accept your votes.

[Powder Miner]

Ah, I do think that's the core of it, Reelya, but even then I think authoritarianism and social conservatism are far from the same thing.

[SalmonGod]

I fail to see how social conservatism not kept to oneself is can not be authoritarianism.

[Shadowlord]

Aggressively pushing that viewpoint onto the world requires authoritarian means.

One light, one mind, flashing in the dark, blinded by the silence of a thousand broken hearts

[SalmonGod]

The same way social liberalism not kept to oneself is can not be authoritarianism.

Point is, forcing one's viewpoint on to the world is the authoritarianism part. Doesn't matter what that viewpoint is. Aggressively pushing that viewpoint onto the world requires authoritarian means.

This seems like oxymoron to me, when social liberalism (as I understand it) means being opposed to people forcing their viewpoints on each other, and in favor of people living however they like, so long as all relationships are consensual.

Unless you're going to bring up the old bit about being tolerant of intolerance.

[Orange Wizard]

Unless you're going to bring up the old bit about being tolerant of intolerance.

FREEDOM IS MANDATORY

[SalmonGod]

Believing in freedom, but also being ok with people damaging freedom is indistinguishable from just not giving a shit.

[Frumple]

Ah, I do think that's the core of it, Reelya, but even then I think authoritarianism and social conservatism are far from the same thing.

Could you expand on that a bit? I'd probably agree they're not strictly identical, but far from the same thing is... not the words I'd use. It's hard to argue that there's more than two major camps in social conservatism (especially the american sort), one appealing to scripture/religious social mores and the other appealing to tradition. The former pretty much is authoritarianism, just with the church replacing a (more) secular government and maybe (as it often isn't as well; see the vein of social conservatism in the US demanding God be in everything, especially the government) being more limited in scope, and the latter shares... a lot of authoritarianism's traits, if sometimes different leading influences (i.e it may actually be anti-establishment, but that doesn't mean it's not very much an appeal/adherence to authority -- of previous years, in this case -- more than just about anything).

So... what kind of major gap between them are you seeing?

[Shadowlord]

I'm not sure if I would go so far as to say "the church" when there are so many denominations that disagree on some very basic shit, like whether the bible should be read literally or whether it requires a more sophisticated approach.

[Frumple]

The church in this case means whichever one the particular conservative is attached to Or whichever brand they go by... usually even the ones that aren't church goers are still very much inclined towards a certain denomination, or regular listening to particular preachers.* I'm very much aware of the fractious nature of american religious groups, heh.

*I'd moderate the language a bit to be less inclined towards christianity in most conversations, but, uh. America thread. Even more than that, discussion about american social conservatives. There's not enough of those that are aligned with a non-christian religion to really be worth talking about :V

[SirQuiamus]

Bob Altemeyer and The Authoritarians ON TOURhhnnnnnnnnnnngggghhhhhh

Oh Goodie! Here comes good ol' Bob again, alerting us to the dangers of authoritarianism and social conformity by casting doubt on all dominant social norms except those enforced by his own in-group: "This and that group of people is crawling with nasty authoritarians, but thank God there are none within the sacred walls of the academe, or in the glorious bastion of freedom that is North-American center-left liberalism: Commies are bad and Nazis are worse, but liberal authoritarians are non-existent by definition – take that, shitlords! Our thoughts are always pure and our actions virtuous, and if America sometimes happens to behave like a global fascist dictatorship, it's entirely the fault of those evil high-RWA bastards in the Congress and the Senate! They just don't understand that politics is not about conflicting interests and social dominance – it's about achieving a state of peace, tolerance, and politically neutral administration by unelected technocrats! Oh, and by the way, capitalism is basically a good thing if it has a lovely human face designed by a top-class PR agency. And corporate fascism is not really fascism at all if it's run by progressive college-educated liberals like me."

I have a hankering to write a scathing long-form critique of Altemeyer's horrible little pamphlet, but I probably shouldn't waste any more time on such a futile effort. I mean, why bother? It's not like this bullshit is his own product – he's merely channelling the Absolute Unquestionable Truths of global capitalism like a good submissive authoritarian.