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[Eagleon]

So here's an amusing thought I'd like to float: what if we paid Trump to resign the day he took office? And would this be legal?

Now, I don't think we should try, he's clearly either gone out of his mind or is executing the biggest scam in our country's history, and the risk is too great if he just changes his mind. It's unlikely that he'd pick anyone for VP that wasn't just as manipulative and terrifying as him, but what do you think he would do? He says he's a business man, and I believe that he believes that he is. Does he take the quick money to get out of a job he doesn't want? Deal, or no deal? At what price?

[Rolan7]

If people could afford it, maybe?  My friends and I are convinced that he had no intention of winning, just the publicity of running.  And that it worked out "better" than he ever expected.  So I would keep a *very* close eye on his running mate...  I don't think he particularly wants to be president.

[FearfulJesuit]

I'm still not entirely convinced he didn't cook the whole thing up for the benefit of (or possibly with the advice and consent of) the Clintons. I mean, he's Bill's golfing buddy, after all.

[mainiac]

Bill Clinton is kinda famous for getting along with everyone though.  If Bill Clinton knew that this would have happened he probably would have done this but it's honestly fucking surprising that the Trump campaign has gotten this far.

[Eagleon]

It's not so difficult to understand. Calling everyone in rural areas stupid in broad strokes ignoring poverty, a lack of opportunity, and, I dunno, basic social etiquette probably hasn't made people like Democrats. Raw fearmongering absent honesty about our actual economic problems explains the rest. They are being lied to, and instead of getting mad about this, to a tee the interactions I've seen between Trump supporters and the rest of America has taken one of two directions: ad-hominem hostility attacking their moral character for supporting Trump, or smug certainty that they'll join up with one of the Good Guys if only they're shown enough facts. There's never any effort to connect first. It's a profound failure in good rhetoric.

I really think the problem with this campaign cycle is that we weren't ready to move it all on the internet. I haven't been paying as much attention to the Republican race, but Sanders still has a pretty sizable phone-banking operation, he's still putting his money on interactions in-person, and he's at his best when his supporters stay out of the internet milieu. Those rallies are important for reinforcing his image as a genuine candidate (and I believe he is genuine), but when we meet up online with Clinton supporters, communications break down and everything gets uglier.

Very few people remember a time when moderation wasn't done on a massive and impersonal scale like Facebook. It's accepted that some sort of etiquette exists, but it's not the etiquette we need online, it's the one we're pulling from real life where public shame rules. A concerted effort to understand that actual people are behind the words we're reading doesn't exist. Instead, absolutely everything is seen as a potential personal attack, or worse, misinformation by stupid/corrupt/old/young/whatever <insert candidate> voters. Absolutely everyone is a "troll" (translation: not a person) Admitting that you're wrong about anything is the ultimate failure - I've tried to do it as much as possible to counteract that absolutism, but yeah...

[mainiac]

Yeah, democrats just dont give a shit about working class people.  They are all concerned about things rich people want like a higher minimum wage, paid parental leave, expanding medicaid, health insurance subsidies and the earned income tax credit.

[Baffler]

Democratic policymakers ≠ Democratic activists.

I see a lot of activists and regular people behaving in exactly the manner Eagleon describes when politics comes up, but it's been a while since I sat down for a chat with Harry Reid to discuss the finer points of the Democratic tax plan. I'm not saying that the Republican party doesn't have image problems, mind you, but those attitudes are very real, and people who say things like that are the face of the Democratic party for a very large number of people.

[Eagleon]

@maniac. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that people are spinning people in rural communities as ignorant mentally-deficient rednecks that have no conscience other than what Jesus gave them, and then turning around and telling them that Trump is a liar without anything to back up their statements but a hashtag. Are you denying that this sort of hatred exists? Have you seen Youtube comment sections? Any of them? Do you even lift?

It doesn't help that a lot of people in rural areas are going online and seeing this shitsmearing being spewed everywhere like it was dogma, and taking away from that that we're all animals. #TheFutureIsStupid

[mainiac]

Have you seen Youtube comment sections? Any of them?

So democratic politicians are supposed to be blamed for idiots on Youtube?  Watch a democratic debate sometime.  Listen to a speech from a democratic politician.  Most of the stuff I just mentioned is going to come up.  They are your basic bread and butter issues.

I dont actually believe that "people in rural areas" are one tenth as stupid as you think.  Maybe because I'm from a rural area.  The description you just gave is hilariously inaccurate.  I think that people in rural areas think about people the exact same fucking way as you fancy city dandies do.  The only differences are differences of opinion.

[Eagleon]

Wow. No, ok, I'm saying the exact opposite. People that are being fed lies can't actually be blamed for believing them if nothing exists to contradict them. That doesn't make them stupid, that makes them lied to. The democratic and republican public is failing to make up the gap because of a failure to relate, on a human level, to the people that support Trump. That comes first before barcharts and graphs and hashtags telling them that they're stupid rubes. Debates and speeches right now are being made to both party's constituency. It's the primary. I have every faith that each candidate will do their part to spread reality. What I fear most is it turning to a battle of character, which Trump is primed and ready to pull off.

And no, they can't be blamed for them. No one but us can be blamed for the idiots on Youtube.

[mainiac]

There's no failure to communicate.  People have differences of opinion.  People will seek out facts they like.  It's how humans work.  It's not ideal but it seems to work out in the end.  The democrats sure would like to win over those Trump supports but they are pretty much the least persuadable voters for the democrats.  People who support a nearly openly misogynist candidate and who support an openly xenophobic candidate aren't going to vote for the party of immigration reform and pay equality.  And they shouldn't.  That's how democracy works.  The system isn't failing when these people vote Trump.  The system is working that they are voting for the candidate they want.  You say they are speaking to their party's constituency.  That's a good thing!  They are speaking to the people who are persuadable on immigration reform and a higher minimum wage and action on global warming and trying to build a ruling coalition.  That's democracy.

[Eagleon]

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/pants-fire/ http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/
Democracy in action. Just lie about everything and don't worry about anyone in public forming bonds to correct you, because politics is a scary subject that shouldn't be talked about in good company. Let it all happen. Shhhhhhhhhhh.

[mainiac]

Good thing most people aren't won over that way.  Otherwise we might have a real problem.

[smjjames]

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/pants-fire/ http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/
Democracy in action. Just lie about everything and don't worry about anyone in public forming bonds to correct you, because politics is a scary subject that shouldn't be talked about in good company. Let it all happen. Shhhhhhhhhhh.

You don't need to try and convince us that he is a liar because we already know he is a dangerous person for the office.

Still, the thing with the Trump phenomenon is that it's actually the same as the Sanders phenomenon, people being extremely fed up with the status quo.

Heck, if Clinton wasn't running, Sanders or some other progressive would be rising in the polls.

[mainiac]

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/08/voters-are-angry-voters-are-fed-voters-are-blah-blah-blah