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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1582701 times)

smjjames

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13755 on: March 07, 2016, 06:03:37 pm »

Make him ambassador to China? vOv  That's what Obama did and I don't know if that is related to what you said.

I thought Biden was working Congress for Obama, which is what a VP is supposed to do, among other things, right?

I dont quite know what you mean by this. Should he have made him ambassador sooner so he couldn't have voted against cloture?

Honestly, I don't know what he should have done in that particular instance or whether the nomination for ambassador post had anything to do with it.

In general though, he definetly could have been tougher with congress and apply whatever influence he or Biden had.

I don't think any of obama's detractors, left or right, on any issue, actually remember biden exists, smj. Like, he's sorta' there for photo ops, maybe, and that seems to be it.

And to be slightly loopy Uncle Biden with the gaffes.
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Wolock

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13756 on: March 07, 2016, 06:05:59 pm »

What I think about Obama is that : While he had pretty good ideas and being pragmatic at the same time he didn't had total support of his own party. The guy was elect too soon, he should have stay a senator more time so he would have build more connections with congress.

Well take the case of Max Baucus, the Democratic Senator who provided cover to republicans creating precedent the use of filibustering as a matter of routine rather then extreme.  Baucus did this because he wanted to play kingmaker on healthcare reform.  What do you think a president could have done to make Baucus get over himself?

Ok so what? One guy? Can you state your point clearly? I will do it if you want. Obama would have probably gain more support from Congress, in general, if he had stay longer in Congress before being elect President. Your turn...
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PTTG??

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13757 on: March 07, 2016, 06:11:59 pm »

On a different note, PTTG?: where is my incentive to make more than a billion dollars per year?... 100,000$ per year is actually quite a lot. Like, 70,000$ a year is considered, counting taxes, to be about where money stops in terms of being able to bring up your happiness; all your needs are essentially covered and you don't have to stress too much about the bills.

I myself wonder why people with more than a billion dollars in annual income keep working. You can't spend a billion dollars a year on your self no matter how hard you try. Anyone who wants more than a billion dollars is not healthy and isn't helping the economy, they're only locking up wealth in their bank account instead of letting it flow into the population.

Also curious where this money is coming from, for the education and medical care. I mean, we're cutting off trade relations, failing to tax a massive segment of the population, paying basic incomes to anyone who wants one...are we gonna default on our loans, so that we can accumulate a new debt with this?

For one, we're getting a lot more in taxes from the obscenely rich. We're getting way, way more in taxes from now-nonprofit organizations (since capital is now flowing into private hands instead of staying corporate, so it's being taxed as salary). Also, the government actually prints money. It can't "run out" any more than Reddit can run out of upvotes. So long as the total value of the economy (which backs the dollar) rises at approximately the same rate as we're spending, the PPP of the dollar remains the same

Putting people in prison for things that have been legal is also a bit extreme. Sure, there's corruption, but justice does not mean 'punish the wrongdoer'. It means 'make what was wrong, right'. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I was thinking firing and blacklisting from government work for a start, plus prosecution with standing anticorruption law.

Guns exacerbate the bigger problem in America which is that we tend to be more violent overall. Like, even where there aren't guns, we tend to have higher rates of violent crime that a lot of other places. Culture of violence and whatnot.
I think the basic income will do more to stop gun violence than a lot of stuff. They're just not a major concern for me.

Like, I know I'm idealistic and shit; I'm hoping to make death a non-factor for people with access to decent medical care(hard to do much for everyone else without going into politics), but...I feel like this wasn't thought through all the way. Mostly the financial/economic bits. Shit costs money, yo. Especially if you want good shit. And I'd like my education and medical care to be good, personally. Plus...I also have higher standards for those in office, but not micromanaging army-style standards, where a single fuckup by one of your subordinates means you never advance. Take responsibility, but the President is still human.

Certainly. "I made a mistake in trusting Mr. X. He no longer works for me, and I've appointed an independent group to investigate the operation so we can compensate for the mistakes," is enough, so long as it's followed through. I'd love to see a politician take that level of responsibility.

See, this is great, guys!

In a general response RE: abortion. My point exactly. You can't please everybody, but the least we can do is recognize that nobody involved wants to kill babies or wrap women up in burqas. Saying it's a medical decision between a woman and her doctor is a bit of a cop-out on my part, but it is an answer that lets us move on to other topics, and is in that sense useful.
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13758 on: March 07, 2016, 06:14:50 pm »


Surely you see how this sort of comment is basically elbowing people in the ribs and saying 'So, you know. Maybe that person who just posted that they support Trump is a racist!'. I think we can treat each other with a little more respect than that.

I'm sorry if you thought I was using innuendo.  Let me be clear.  I dont mean to IMPLY that Trump has won the support of racists.  I mean to SAY that Trump has won the support of racists and that there is evidence that shows this.

Ok so what? One guy? Can you state your point clearly? I will do it if you want. Obama would have probably gain more support from Congress, in general, if he had stay longer in Congress before being elect President. Your turn...

The Baucus vote against cloture for the Affordable Care Act was arguably the most important swing vote of the Obama presidency.  So I am suggesting this as an example we might use.  It's just a suggestion, I think it's a good way to explore the topic.  There are plenty of other approaches one could take.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13759 on: March 07, 2016, 06:33:25 pm »

You willingly support a candidate who successful courts the racist vote.  That doesn't make you a racist.  That does mean that you tolerate racism in pursuit of your political aims.  I suppose I was not explicit about it before.  Thank you for reminding me to take the time to say it now.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Shadowlord

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13760 on: March 07, 2016, 06:39:29 pm »

So... What do you think about Mexicans and Muslims?
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13762 on: March 07, 2016, 07:00:36 pm »

Your logic is flawed; racists voting for Trump doesn't make him racist

Is he a racist?  I'm not a mind reader. 

Does he actively court racists by saying bigoted things?  Yes.

For Trump to be racist, he'd have to demonstrate it with his own actions and/or policies, which has not happened.

"Someone is doing the raping"
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/07/01/donald-trump-comments-sot-tsr.cnn

"There were people cheering"
https://youtu.be/tYndFg_ea04?t=10s
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 07:04:10 pm by mainiac »
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13763 on: March 07, 2016, 07:08:12 pm »

I'd rather make my own mind up about what is bigoted and what isn't.

Okay, so you dont want to consider racists bigots.  Note again, I'm not implying anything about you.  I'm actively saying it to your face.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

nenjin

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13764 on: March 07, 2016, 07:09:04 pm »

Trump is very good at saying something simple and letting everyone else decide what it actually means.

I know that's a quality of strong leadership I look for.
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RedKing

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« Reply #13765 on: March 07, 2016, 07:11:32 pm »

And yeah, E, RK has been a bit... call it uncouth? Something like that. Hunger keeps me from a better word. In reference to clinton.
Uncouth? UNCOUTH?? I will have you know, my good sirrsh, that I am couth as fuck. I have an entire shitbasket of couths.

And I gotta say, Covenant is right. We're all totally down (with the exception of Covenant and a few other more rightward-leaning forumites) with mocking the Republican field and casting aspersions like lawn darts. But when it comes to Hillary, about a third of us are equally down with it, a third are uncomfortable with it, and a third clutch their pearls and act like a bro who's just been told that Nickelback sucks. (Incidentally, I will now refer to HRC henceforth as "the Nickelback of Democratic candidates").

I haven't seen that much mocking of Sanders, but if I did, I wouldn't be losing my shit over it. Hell, when somebody made the comment about China trade when Sanders was 20, my first thought was "Yeah, it was still called the Manchu Dynasty!" (Ha ha #BernieSoOld).

You are not your candidate of choice. You are a voter. And like every other voter, your candidate doesn't give a flying fuck about you personally. Not even out of malice, just from the fact that they don't know you exist. They may care about you in the abstract as a member of a demographic, but not you as a person.

Bill Clinton was a master of making people feel that personal connection. "I feel your pain." (And your butt, if you're cute.) And thats fine, that's what good politicians do. Just don't believe it to the point that you start taking attacks on them as attacks on yourself.
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Wolock

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13766 on: March 07, 2016, 07:20:26 pm »




And I gotta say, Covenant is right. We're all totally down (with the exception of Covenant and a few other more rightward-leaning forumites) with mocking the Republican field and casting aspersions like lawn darts. But when it comes to Hillary, about a third of us are equally down with it, a third are uncomfortable with it, and a third clutch their pearls and act like a bro who's just been told that Nickelback sucks. (Incidentally, I will now refer to HRC henceforth as "the Nickelback of Democratic candidates").

As a Canadian I do like some Nickelback once in a while... take that as you want.
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RedKing

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13767 on: March 07, 2016, 07:25:56 pm »




And I gotta say, Covenant is right. We're all totally down (with the exception of Covenant and a few other more rightward-leaning forumites) with mocking the Republican field and casting aspersions like lawn darts. But when it comes to Hillary, about a third of us are equally down with it, a third are uncomfortable with it, and a third clutch their pearls and act like a bro who's just been told that Nickelback sucks. (Incidentally, I will now refer to HRC henceforth as "the Nickelback of Democratic candidates").

As a Canadian I do like some Nickelback once in a while... take that as you want.
And I occasionally like things Hillary says. Then she starts in with the rhetorical equivalent of that one song about getting road head, and it's like, "Oh right, THIS is why I can't stand her!"
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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Helgoland

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Re: On Politics
« Reply #13768 on: March 07, 2016, 07:30:03 pm »

I haven't seen that much mocking of Sanders, but if I did, I wouldn't be losing my shit over it.
It's a power thing, I guess. Sanders followers clearly dominate this thread, so it's easy for you as one of them to just shrug off a tasteless joke or two. Mainiac has gotten a lot of flak for being the one big Clinton supporter around these parts, and his opinion is a minority one. To me it's rather understandable that he reacts differently.

Come to think of it, there's a nice parallel to societal power differences and sexism here*: For me as a dude it's easy to shrug off a sexist joke, because I'm protected from said sexism having any real impact on my life - but for a woman it's different, because that joke is just another facet of a way of thinking that impacts her heavily.

*Not trying to open that topic. Please don't start discussing sexism etc.
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nenjin

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13769 on: March 07, 2016, 07:39:55 pm »

I'll admit, being ambivalent about the election in general helps me not get caught up in the futile battle of trying to change the minds of people on the Internet. Also it helps me find all jokes/memes equally funny in their own way. That Ted Cruz voice over video was priceless.

Quote
It's just when it crosses the line to insulting the voters that I think is a step too far.

It's hard to question people's beliefs without crossing that line, either in their mind or due to one's own love of rhetoric. Which is kinda maniac's point. Which is why political discourse is so wrecked in this country. Unfortunately, unless you actually care what the other person thinks, instead of just hoping they're going to walk into the verbal bear trap you're trying to lay for them, it's all for shit. Whether Trump supporters are racists, have the intellect of a 12-year-old, are simply reality show junkies who are voting for the spectacle, are crazy people with terrible fashion sense, or just sadly misinformed people reaching out to the only guy they think is throwing them a lifeline in a world they find scary.....they're people. So if you don't actually care about them as people, then "wanting to know what they think" is really just a pretense for scoring points. Personally, that just seems like a giant fucking waste of time on everyone's part. I'm not saying you should run out and hug your nearest KKK representative. But dismissing people out of hand whom you disagree with, or worse, fucking with them for personal satisfaction, has never solved anything.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 07:44:57 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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How will I cheese now assholes?
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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