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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1570071 times)

RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12975 on: March 01, 2016, 01:19:25 pm »

I'm working on a little spreadsheet to give some ideas of delegate counts based on these totals and the arcane delegate proportioning systems, and a metric fuckton of guesswork.

538 has an excellent summary of them.
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(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

You know what? I don't even give a fuck...I'm still doing it.
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smjjames

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12976 on: March 01, 2016, 01:25:11 pm »

Also, on Kasich, if he does really poorly again, the pressure for him to drop out will really ramp up.

Maniac, you said last night that if neither Trump or Rubio gets 210 delegates tonight, they are on track to a brokered convention, but you didn't say anything about Cruz. How many would Cruz, or all three of them even, have to get less than in order to be on track for a brokered convention?

I'm working on a little spreadsheet to give some ideas of delegate counts based on these totals and the arcane delegate proportioning systems, and a metric fuckton of guesswork.

538 has an excellent summary of them.
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(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

You know what? I don't even give a fuck...I'm still doing it.

I meant that it has an excellent summary of how it works and I thought it would help you out somewhat.

Edit: Heh, Trump and Cruz are telling Rubio he should drop out because he has no chance of winning, but all three have been telling each other to drop out for a while now and all three have too much at stake to quit now.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 01:31:49 pm by smjjames »
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12977 on: March 01, 2016, 01:56:28 pm »

Okay, kicking Alaska and Minnesota aside for a minute because I can't find any good polling data (and I'm using an outdated poll for Arkansas).

If we assume a straight proportional, no minimum threshold rules for every state, we get:

Trump 194 delegates
Cruz 138 delegates
Rubio 70 delegates
Kasich 14 delegates
Carson 15 delegates

(though my math seems to be off somewhere, still leaves about 100 delegates unaccounted for of 529 when you leave out MN and AK).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, Virginia is the only state in Super Tuesday without a minimum threshold to receive delegates (and thus likely the only state where Ben Carson will get a delegate).

The minimum thresholds are:

Massachusetts: 5% (Carson is polling at 3%)
Minnesota: 10% (Not sure what Carson is at, but I can't imagine it's above single-digits)
Alaska: 13%
Oklahoma, Arkansas: 15%
Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Vermont: 20%

This has real repercussions in several states. Kasich is liable to be shut out of delegates everywhere but Virginia and Massachusetts. Even with a 10% showing in Vermont, he won't qualify.
Rubio could be conceivably be shut out in Texas, Tennessee and Vermont, despite placing 3rd in TX and TN and 2nd in VT. He's at risk of being shut out in Alabama as well.
Cruz could be shut out in Alabama(!) and Vermont.

Vermont could, incredibly, go entirely to Trump just because no other candidate hit the 20% threshold. However, the polling numbers of Vermont leave a whopping 27% undecided. Rubio would likely pick up enough to push him over 20. Not as clear for Kasich and Cruz.

Likewise, Cruz is below the 20% threshold in Alabama, and Rubio is in serious danger of slipping below it. A little bit of surge by...well, anyone other than Rubio could wind up handing the entire state to Trump by virtue of the 20% minimum.

Being shut out of Texas would hurt Rubio bigtime, and likely benefit Trump -- if an urban district went for Rubio but he was ineligble to receive their delegates, it would go to the 2nd place finisher in the district, which would likely be Trump.

A number of states turn into a winner-take-all at some threshold, typically 50% (66.67% for Tennessee and 85% for Minnesota), but the only race that has any polling numbers above 50 is Massachusetts (Trump's latest result was 51), which does not have a WTA clause.

Once you drop Kasich and Carson out of consideration, and account for the minimum thresholds, it's going to be a mixed night for Cruz and Rubio. Rubio will likely beat Cruz in a number of states that Cruz should be expected to win (and by win, we mean "come in 2nd place to Trump") but will likely wind up with a lower overall haul of delegates. Cruz will win Texas (but is unlikely to win all the districts and get a sweep), and in other states he could well fail to win a district, or only win one or two districts and a meager number of delegates.

Bottom line prediction:
Trump walks away with about 450-500 delegates tonight. Less than 450 means Cruz and/or Rubio had a better night than expected. Over 500 means he swept most states and possibly won Texas.
Cruz will get between 90-120 (almost entirely from Texas). If he loses Texas, more on the order of 20-40, and possibly less than Rubio.
Rubio gets about 45 if he wins Minnesota, and maybe 15-20 if he doesn't.
Kasich gets 2-3, from Virginia and Massachusetts. Probably drops out.
Carson gets 1 delegate from Virginia and promptly stores him in a pyramid, and insists that there's still "a chance for people to wake up".

Now, the fascinating bit is that as I pointed out, Cruz will likely have the better delegate count while Rubio will have more 2nd place finishes. Cue an uproar about the fairness of GOP primary rules and minimum thresholds, and neither candidate will drop out. Meanwhile, Nyarlotrump will be sitting back and grinning as the GOP devolves further into chaos. I'll have to make popcorn.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12978 on: March 01, 2016, 01:58:59 pm »

"If he becomes president, Donald J. Trump said, "you will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center."

It is the year of our lord MMXVI and a major candidate for world's most powerful man is going around shouting JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS.

My god. My god.
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Teneb

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12979 on: March 01, 2016, 02:03:59 pm »

"If he becomes president, Donald J. Trump said, "you will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center."

It is the year of our lord MMXVI and a major candidate for world's most powerful man is going around shouting JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS.

My god. My god.
Wake up sheeple! Trump will make illuminati great again!
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mainiac

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12980 on: March 01, 2016, 02:04:54 pm »

Maniac, you said last night that if neither Trump or Rubio gets 210 delegates tonight, they are on track to a brokered convention, but you didn't say anything about Cruz. How many would Cruz, or all three of them even, have to get less than in order to be on track for a brokered convention?

Well from my very simplistic "the candidates must beat their 538 targets" method, I deduce that Cruz would need to beat 300 some but I consider that very unlikely.

Kasich -- It's been a good run, but I think tonight is the Governor's swan-song. I know he wants to press on to Ohio, but he really needed to seriously contest MA and VT to have a shot. If he comes out of this thing with <10 delegates to show for it, I don't see how he continues.

I dont think he will drop out yet because the party wants him to play a spoiler in Ohio.  Kasich winning Ohio makes a Trump victory less likely.  Even if Kasich doesn't think he has a chance to win the nomination, keeping Trump from winning the nomination seems like something he would want.  And if he can do that while winning brownie points with party insiders, so much the better.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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miauw62

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12981 on: March 01, 2016, 02:05:31 pm »

if 9/11 was an inside job does this mean that trump is going to reveal that america blew up the wtc
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Levi

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12982 on: March 01, 2016, 02:08:25 pm »

if 9/11 was an inside job does this mean that trump is going to reveal that america blew up the wtc

Nah, it was Cuba.   ;D
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12983 on: March 01, 2016, 02:09:03 pm »

Anerica did it to make room for the glorious WORLD TRUMP CENTER the YUGEST tower in the world.  The past 15 years have just been the greatest promotional blitz in history.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12984 on: March 01, 2016, 02:09:26 pm »

Kasich -- It's been a good run, but I think tonight is the Governor's swan-song. I know he wants to press on to Ohio, but he really needed to seriously contest MA and VT to have a shot. If he comes out of this thing with <10 delegates to show for it, I don't see how he continues.

I dont think he will drop out yet because the party wants him to play a spoiler in Ohio.  Kasich winning Ohio makes a Trump victory less likely.  Even if Kasich doesn't think he has a chance to win the nomination, keeping Trump from winning the nomination seems like something he would want.  And if he can do that while winning brownie points with party insiders, so much the better.
Except that Trump is currently ahead in Ohio polling, and is trending upwards. Ohio is winner-take-all, so coming in 2nd doesn't do shit. About the only way Kasich wins Ohio at this point is if Rubio and/or Cruz drop.

Bear in mind, if Trump takes 537 delegates tonight (which would be a stretch, but not impossible) he's over halfway to the nomination.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:13:42 pm by RedKing »
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12985 on: March 01, 2016, 02:12:01 pm »

538 has them equally likely to win which I think indicates the chance of strategic voting as Rubio supporters in Ohio vote for the guy who beats Trump in their state.  It's in Rubio and Cruz's interest to have their supporters vote for Kasich in Ohio due to the winner take all nature.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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RedKing

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12986 on: March 01, 2016, 02:14:36 pm »

The GOP doesn't seem particularly interested in strategic voting so far, or they wouldn't have the clusterfuck that they do now.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12987 on: March 01, 2016, 02:16:18 pm »

By strategic voting I mean a voter switching their vote from Rubio (or Cruz) to Kasich because they think Kasich winning in Ohio makes it more likely that Rubio (or Cruz) wins the nomination.  I dont think they have been circumstances that would allow for this kind of strategic voting in any of the states so far.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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smjjames

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12988 on: March 01, 2016, 02:17:58 pm »

I don't know, 450 seems like highballing it (or maybe not lowballing enough) for Trump and things are rather unpredictable (other than Trump largely vacuuming the delegates).

Kasich -- It's been a good run, but I think tonight is the Governor's swan-song. I know he wants to press on to Ohio, but he really needed to seriously contest MA and VT to have a shot. If he comes out of this thing with <10 delegates to show for it, I don't see how he continues.

I dont think he will drop out yet because the party wants him to play a spoiler in Ohio.  Kasich winning Ohio makes a Trump victory less likely.  Even if Kasich doesn't think he has a chance to win the nomination, keeping Trump from winning the nomination seems like something he would want.  And if he can do that while winning brownie points with party insiders, so much the better.
Except that Trump is currently ahead in Ohio polling, and is trending upwards. Ohio is winner-take-all, so coming in 2nd doesn't do shit. About the only way Kasich wins Ohio at this point is if Rubio and/or Cruz drop.

Bear in mind, if Trump takes 537 delegates tonight (which would be a stretch, but not impossible) he's over halfway to the nomination.

Yeah, Kasich is only hurting the anti-trump camp by staying in. Also, I don't see either Rubio or Cruz dropping out. Maybe Cruz if he has a bad night and/or loses Texas or only wins by a close margin, which is looking likely.

Carson: I don't see the path to nomination, but I will if WAKE UP SHEEPLE! They have no idea how they'd get the nomination at this point, yet Carson refuses to drop out? Pfft....
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:24:32 pm by smjjames »
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #12989 on: March 01, 2016, 02:23:09 pm »

Yeah, Kasich is only hurting the anti-trump camp by staying in.

If he wins Ohio then he is helping the anti-trump camp by removing 66 delegates from Trumps total.  This makes it more likely that Trump does not have enough delegates to secure the nomination.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.
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