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[mainiac]

Was reading some stuff today and I decided I wanted to make another Clinton fanwank.  People say that Clinton is too close to the financial industry.  This is not what too close to the financial industry looks like:
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=96569
https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/senate-bill/2114

This is what too close to the financial industry looks like:
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2011/11/3971362/bloomberg-plain-and-simple-congress-caused-mortgage-crisis-not-bank

Selling out in american politics doesn't happen through subtle crypto stances.  A politician can loudly and proudly declare their fealty to wall street and still be called a centrist.

[RedKing]

So they created this absurd notion that reform would have happened eventually.  It wasn't happening.  The slaveholders were growing more unyeilding in their demands before the war, the institution was getting more brutal and even more inefficient.  The radical republicans were 100% on the nose right, you needed to break the political power of the slaveowning class.

Hmm, substitute "Wall Street"/financial industry for slaveowners, and you have a fair description of the split in the Democratic party right now -- reformers vs. radicals.

@mainiac: So you linked to a bill that went absolutely nowhere as proof of Hill's reformer cred? Especially one that basically says "Well, the financial industry might been the ones to fuck property values in the ass and make your home worth less than the mortgage you have on it....but we're here to help negotiate you a new 40-year mortgage so you can still keep paying the financial industry."

IMHO, it's the equivalent of seeing someone getting assraped and offering them a tube of KY as assistance. Better than nothing but still doesn't stop the trauma or punish the guilty.

[Mephansteras]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/02/duncan-hunter-endorses-donald-trump-219725?lo=ut_a1

DUUUUNNNNNCCCCCAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

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He is my congressional representative btw, I live in the district he represents To be fair, I've voted against him....

Ugh. Not surprised, though, that guy sucks. I'm sorry you're stuck in his district.

[RedKing]

The problem is that living in a burning house generally doesn't leave you in much of a condition to rebuild. Unless the plan is to build survival bunkers and hole up for four years, emerging only after Trump's supporters have turned on each other in a frenzy of Murrica after running out of "other" people to hate.

[Mephansteras]

The real problem is that Trump won't burn everything down. He'll just tick off the rest of the world, do a bunch of stupid stuff that makes life worse for most people, and set himself up to make even more money when his term is up.

He's not going to burn the house down, he's just going to break some stuff, fill the place with cigar fumes while laughing at anyone who objects, puke on a few things, and then ransack the refrigerator for snacks before stumbling out the door in the morning.

[Shadowlord]

This is why I say that we should hand it all over to Trump; the absurdity of a Trump presidency plus the horrors of the things that he will accomplish in office should be enough to either scare people enough to be willing to allow sweeping reforms with the next president. That, or he'll burn this whole place down and we can start over fresh.

This didn't work out so well for the people who thought this about Hitler.

[Egan_BW]

Thanks for the input, Godwin. 

[RedKing]

Harry Reid endorses Clinton. This is breaking news on par with "the Sun come up this morning" or "Somewhere, a bird is pooping on a car."

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The problem is that living in a burning house generally doesn't leave you in much of a condition to rebuild. Unless the plan is to build survival bunkers and hole up for four years, emerging only after Trump's supporters have turned on each other in a frenzy of Murrica after running out of "other" people to hate.

Look, if The Donald wins there was never any path to good reform, it just demonstrates that humanity is too fucked. In that instance the right thing to do is to party to death.

[RedKing]

As someone with two young kids, I'm less sanguine about trashing their future.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Your children's future lies in the teachings of the famous documentary The Road Warrior. Teach them to take from the weak and revel amongst the strong, and everything will work out.

[RedKing]

"Now son, I know things look bad and we had to cook your stuffed animals to make a cellulose paste approximating food. But remember, when you grow up, you will be shiny and gold and ride with Immortan Don in Vegas."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[mainiac]

@mainiac: So you linked to a bill that went absolutely nowhere as proof of Hill's reformer cred?

Whereas Sanders cred is established... by a bunch of proposals that went even less far?

The point is that the people who wanted to let Wall Street off the hook had a convenient cop out.  Say that it was the well-intentioned by misguided government trying to help those poors.  Pretend that was what happened and you not only justify inaction, you retroactively let yourself off the hook.  The danger of Clinton being too close to wall street is that she would buy into the stories that are convenient to the people around her.  That she didn't do that with regards to wall street 8 years ago means it's very unlikely she will start believing such things now.

The real problem

I think the real problem is that highly unorthodox things are inherently hard to predict. The range of Trump outcomes spans literally hitler to surprisingly productive.  There is good reason to be pessimistic but you can't confidently say what will happen.

[RedKing]

@mainiac: So you linked to a bill that went absolutely nowhere as proof of Hill's reformer cred?

Whereas Sanders cred is established... by a bunch of proposals that went even less far?

A fair cop, but that only means that they're equal in that neither of them has produced any real legislative impact in Congress.

The point is that the people who wanted to let Wall Street off the hook had a convenient cop out.  It was the well-intentioned by misguided government trying to help those poors.  Pretend that was what happened and you not only justify inaction, you retroactively let yourself off the hook.

I can't even parse this.

[mainiac]

A wall street shill doesn't start with the premise that wall street is broken.  While she isn't a hivemind with Paul Krugman and Elizabeth Warren, she is starting on the same page as them.  Whereas "moderates" like Bloomberg and non-traditional candidates like Trump reject the premise that Wall Street did anything wrong.

Hmm, substitute "Wall Street"/financial industry for slaveowners, and you have a fair description of the split in the Democratic party right now -- reformers vs. radicals.

The democratic party doesn't say that it's a god given right for wall street to lie to investors and cheat borrowers.  The democratic party in 1856 said that slavery was a god given right.