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[RedKing]

It does. It also places the sender of that message on a level of societal advancement about on par with the 19th century.
Why not just go whole hog, and let's skip back to the beheadings and burning at the stake? Or drawing and quartering? Boiling alive? Flaying?

[mainiac]

Objection! You're just asking that because you want a license to kill and rape. Should have joined the police.

[Baffler]

It's not execution, but I wonder how things would go if we replaced prison sentences for low-level felonies with caning, or at least had it as an option. Singapore and Malaysia do it, but I know next to nothing about their legal environments.

[mainiac]

Suggested thread title: 19th century criminal justice for all megathread

[Frumple]

It does.

It kinda' doesn't, though? Unless you're actually hanging each and every perpetrator, the only message it's sending is "We'll kill some of the people we catch". Crime's still being tolerated, the society's just murdering a few people to make itself feel better about that tolerance.

[FearfulJesuit]

It's not execution, but I wonder how things would go if we replaced prison sentences for low-level felonies with caning, or at least had it as an option. Singapore and Malaysia do it, but I know next to nothing about their legal environments.

Singapore is famously safe, and I think in many cases it makes the punishment fit the crime- i.e. having to work with the city cleaners if you're caught littering. Malaysia has implemented mild Sharia, I think.

I'm not entirely sure what good caning would do...hurts like a bitch, but American prisons are just as bad on your mental health if not worse, and is there any evidence that caning is at all remedial? On the other hand, it's sure as hell a lot cheaper to give someone a few whacks on the ass than to house and feed them for six months.

[mainiac]

On the other hand it's rather expensive to face never ending lawsuits when you cane someone to death by accident on a weekly basis.

[Baffler]

On the other hand it's rather expensive to face never ending lawsuits when you cane someone to death by accident on a weekly basis.

Nobody has ever died from judiciary caning in either country since the British introduced the practice in the 1880's. It's not just a DF style beating by whatever member(s) the fortress guard happen to be available and what happens, happens.

[FearfulJesuit]

On the other hand it's rather expensive to face never ending lawsuits when you cane someone to death by accident on a weekly basis.

Nobody has ever died from judiciary caning in either country since the British introduced the practice in the 1880's. It's not just a DF style beating by whatever member(s) the fortress guard happen to be available and what happens, happens.

I wasn't aware the British had introduced it, but that does make sense, since it was how all the civil servants were disciplined at public school, of course. (Sodomy by sixth-form prefects would also be a good deterrent, I presume, but it's not quite as politically expedient to implement as part of the legal system.)

[Spehss _]

It does. It also places the sender of that message on a level of societal advancement about on par with the 19th century.
Why not just go whole hog, and let's skip back to the beheadings and burning at the stake? Or drawing and quartering? Boiling alive? Flaying?

Why not? I don't see any reason you're giving that actually warrants not doing any of that beyond the statement that it will make people think our society isn't "up to date".

If you argued that these methods are out of date because there are more humane methods of capital punishment and death penalty, then yes I agree. But not doing something (here I'm referring to anything, not specifically capital punishment) just because it's "old" and would make the society look "out of date" doesn't seem a valid reason all on its own to not do the "out of date" action.

Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)

Look at all the people with smart phones. Why use a flip phone? Don't use that, it's out of date and will make the society you live in look barbaric and not with the times.

Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)

Why have an economic system built around money? It's unfair and stops people from getting what they want because they don't have enough money, we'd look like barbarians to have poor and starving people in the current year when we had poor and starving people last year. Let's abolish the economy and have everyone take anything they want, that way we'll be progressive and not have starving or poor people like the society of yesteryear.

Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)

Why go to war with other countries? It's the current year, there were wars years ago. Surely society has advanced enough that we can settle our differences without violence and live in progressive harmony. Let's not look like barbarians.

etc.

I'll admit that I haven't been following this discussion and just kinda jumped in on a minor nitpick. I'm not arguing for or against public execution or in favor of certain methods of execution, just pointing out that "society looking out of date" seems an inadequate argument. It sounds very much like peer pressure ("look at all the other people smoking, you should smoke too! you don't want to look out of place, do you?" etc)

[Loud Whispers]

[IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR]+1

[mainiac]

I would say that having starving people is a pretty barbaric thing in this day and age.  The difference is that there are a lot of different approaches to solving hunger.  It's a complicated issue because it relates to mental health, crime and childcare.  Not caning people however has a really, really easy solution.  You ready for this?  Here it comes:

In order to not cane people, you dont cane people.

[Grim Portent]

This whole discussion does also fall into the whole issue of whether it's better to punish criminals to serve as a deterrent or rehabilitate them so they contribute to society as law abiding citizens, or both, or neither, or something else entirely.

[Loud Whispers]

Singapore is famously safe, and I think in many cases it makes the punishment fit the crime- i.e. having to work with the city cleaners if you're caught littering. Malaysia has implemented mild Sharia, I think.

Nah Malaysia has strict shariah law, just mostly for Muslims, though for their non-religious capital offenses they still have their shariah-metre to judge how compliant it is
Singapore is also a really, really unique place

I'm not entirely sure what good caning would do...hurts like a bitch, but American prisons are just as bad on your mental health if not worse, and is there any evidence that caning is at all remedial? On the other hand, it's sure as hell a lot cheaper to give someone a few whacks on the ass than to house and feed them for six months.

SHAME
HH
A  A
M    M
E       E

Not caning people however has a really, really easy solution.  You ready for this?  Here it comes:
In order to not cane people, you dont cane people.

That sounds unreasonable when sugar cane and bamboo grows in your back garden and you must cane

This whole discussion does also fall into the whole issue of whether it's better to punish criminals to serve as a deterrent or rehabilitate them so they contribute to society as law abiding citizens, or both, or neither, or something else entirely.

I'm quite fond of the Australia/Siberia treatment, so maybe just put a penal colony on the moon or in Antarctica that everyone can send criminals to

[Rolan7]

I would say that having starving people is a pretty barbaric thing in this day and age.  The difference is that there are a lot of different approaches to solving hunger.  It's a complicated issue because it relates to mental health, crime and childcare.  Not caning people however has a really, really easy solution.  You ready for this?  Here it comes:

In order to not cane people, you dont cane people.

That solves the "problem" of caning people, but doesn't solve the problem of "How do we de-incentivize crime".  Not saying caning's the answer, or that there's one single answer (clearly a lot of techniques are applicable together).  But it's not like "locking people up for their entire lives, using public funds" is obviously the superior choice.  Particularly with our privatized prisons.