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[mainiac]

I do. If someone's going to lie to me I expect a little effort & work put into it.

But what if the lies in public aren't as bad.  When a politician lies and doesn't make an effort to hide it they are generally claiming something isn't partisan when it is.  When they lie and cover it up, it's usually something illegal for a good reason.

[Rolepgeek]

Would you rather...covert dishonesty?

I do. If someone's going to lie to me I expect a little effort & work put into it. Besides basic respect for my intelligence, there's the pragmatic advantage of the more work they have to put in to each lie, the less porkies they can fit in. When simply flat out lying becomes too easy there's never much point to telling the truth. Not in politics anyways.

I would far rather someone blatantly lie so I can know they're lying. I give zero shits in this respect about them respecting my intelligence; I would prefer them to be just honest, instead. If I can't have that, I'd like to know when they're lying. If that means they underestimate me, good. If they lie blatantly, then we can know they're lying, and call them on their bullshit. It's a lot harder to do that if they're clever about it.

[wobbly]

Not really. Because you can call BS on them all you like & it won't make a lick of difference because there's simply no consequences to them lying.

I do. If someone's going to lie to me I expect a little effort & work put into it.

But what if the lies in public aren't as bad.  When a politician lies and doesn't make an effort to hide it they are generally claiming something isn't partisan when it is.  When they lie and cover it up, it's usually something illegal for a good reason.

In my experience when a politician lies & doesn't cover it up it's because there pandering to a group that will just accept any nonsense as long as it conforms to there world view. It can still be quite destructive. You'll see a lot of this stuff on race issues for example.

Covering something up generally means there will be consequences if it comes out (unfortunately not always). If they don't have to cover it up, they can do the same openly safe in the knowledge that no-one gives a shiz.

[Bauglir]

in this thread: we debate the merits of honest deceit vs deceitful deceit

but has anybody considered the value of deceitful honesty?

[wobbly]

but has anybody considered the value of deceitful honesty?

I think marketing people worked out the value of that 1 a long time ago.

There's a juice company near me that "squeezes their juice daily". Stands to reason really, they'd lose money if they shut the plant down for a day.

[Powder Miner]

There's a juice company near me that "squeezes their juice daily".

There's an immature joke to be made here.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Gaaaahh! I am *squeezing* the *juice*! 

[Rolan7]

There are no fiscal conservatives now.  Only neocons.

[Loud Whispers]

There are no fiscal conservatives now.  Only neocons.

This reads like the start, or end of a horror story

[origamiscienceguy]

Contains.0001%REAL       fruit!

[RedKing]

Gaaaahh! I am *squeezing* the *juice*!

Would have been 10x better if Frumple had posted that.

[Frumple]

Which is mildly unfortunate(?), because I don't exactly make SC2 references. That's a different frumple, damnit. Not going to add to the confusion by feeding it.

[mainiac]

[Amperzand]

I find myself unsure of what to say.

[TheBiggerFish]

I find myself unsure of what to say.

Ditto...