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[mainiac]

Shorter version of the article: "Hillary Clinton proposed something to help working middle class families and poor healthcare workers so she hates the elderly poor for not helping them too."

[Shadowlord]

The elderly aren't the only poor people. 

[Frumple]

Just about the only ones that really matter to a politician, though :V

[mainiac]

The elderly aren't the only poor people. 

Yes, and?

[Reelya]

Yeah, I'm not getting the basis of the anti-Clinton thing here. Maybe someone hasn't thought this through.

So Shadowlord, where do you stand on Tax Breaks?  And where do you stand on handouts?

If the Clinton tax credit is not refundable, that's a tax break. If the Clinton tax credit is refundable, that's a handout (well, the part cashed in by people who didn't pay any taxes is).

It's kinda bizarre to complain that a Democrat isn't throwing enough free money at the poor, isn't it?

[Shadowlord]

It'll take a lot more than a non-refundable tax credit to solve the systemic problems the poor are facing.

Here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/20/us/skip-child-support-go-to-jail-lose-job-repeat.html?partner=msft_msn
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/why-couldnt-130-million-transform-one-of-baltimores-poorest-places/2015/05/02/0467ab06-f034-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9_story.html
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/many-low-income-americans-cant-even-afford-to-rent-2015-06-16?mod=latestnews
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/05/06/meet-the-outsider-who-accidentally-solved-chronic-homelessness/
http://theweek.com/articles/547348/beyond-inequality-how-american-employers-brazenly-mistreat-workers
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/10/nyregion/at-nail-salons-in-nyc-manicurists-are-underpaid-and-unprotected.html?partner=msft_msn
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/11/nyregion/nail-salon-workers-in-nyc-face-hazardous-chemicals.html?partner=msft_msn
(New York City has cracked down on the salons since those articles were published)
https://www.propublica.org/article/nyc-public-housing-fixing-a-leak-with-a-bucket
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/25/us/cleveland-police-verdict-up-to-speed/index.html (A car backfired going past a police station, a bunch of cops chased it, and then gunned down the occupants. Officer Brelo climbed onto the hood and fired into the car after the other cops had stopped shooting. He was the only one charged, and was only charged with voluntary manslaughter and felonious assault. The judge used a catch-22 to find Brelo not guilty: He couldn't be found guilty of voluntary manslaughter because he might not have fired the fatal shots, but he also couldn't be found guilty of felonious assault because they might have still been a threat when he fired his second round of shots (everyone shot in the first round, but then Brelo climbed onto the hood of their car and fired more rounds into them - and the first round was permissible because the cops considered them a threat ))
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/false-memory-crime?mbid=synd_msnnews

[Helgoland]

So basically you're saying that because Clinton's proposal doesn't immediately and magically solve all of the problems America's poor are facing, it's worth shit and she shouldn't be president?

Pray tell, what could she propose that would satisfy you?

[Shadowlord]

No, I'm supporting Bernie Sanders instead, but he's right that we need to do more than just elect a president to get anything accomplished. If Hillary wins the nomination, I'd rather see her in office than one of the Republicans, though.

It's easier to accomplish stuff on a state level, but some of the states have been doing some crazy things. Alabama, for instance:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/17/alabama-voting-voter-id-driving-license
http://www.propublica.org/article/alabama-considers-a-step-back-from-prosecuting-pregnant-drug-users (They've been going after women even when there's no harm to the fetus)
Articles related to that:
https://www.propublica.org/article/when-the-womb-is-a-crime-scene (Where a women took half a valium, it had no effect on her baby, but the state decided to bring the hammer down on her anyways)
http://www.propublica.org/article/alabamas-meth-lab-law-abortion-rights-and-the-strange-case-of-jane-doe ("authorities in Lauderdale County in northern Alabama have sought to use that same law to deny a 29-year-old pregnant inmate in the local jail — accused of exposing her fetus to drugs — the right to have an abortion.")
Tennessee has started doing this too now.

[Helgoland]

Still, my question stands: What does all this have to do with Clinton's proposal?

[mainiac]

Still, my question stands: What does all this have to do with Clinton's proposal?

^^

[Shadowlord]

She keeps proposing things that don't help the people who need the most help - this is just another.

[mainiac]

She keeps proposing things that don't help the people who need the most help - this is just another.

That is a completely bullshit standard.  By that standard any politician doesn't give a shit about the poor.

Putting at least 13 million Americans to work by investing $1 trillion over five years towards rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.

^^Look at this monster giving jobs to middle class people in the construction industry instead of helping underemployment among poor young urban people.

Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.

Oooooh, look at mister moneybags here doing something that will helping rich people with salaries a lot and do nothing at all for hourly workers at minimum wage.

Making it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. One of the most significant reasons for the 40-year decline in the middle class is that the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits have been severely undermined.

Oh gee, something that will mostly help middle class workers and but wont affect wages at all among poor migrants.  Of course this is completely typical for Bernie Sanders!


For the record I dont think Bernie Sanders is a bourgeois sellout.  It's pretty freaking obvious that the man cares deeply about all three of the groups I mentioned and he has specific policy proposals aimed at helping them, these just aren't those proposals.  The point is that not every proposal is supposed to deal with every issue.  If you adopt that ridiculous standard you've entered a realm disconnected from reality.

[Loud Whispers]

Based off of outward appearances it seems Bernie actually believes what he says and what he says has become popular whilst Hillary says whatever's popular

[mainiac]

Okay...

Based on outward appearances it seems Hillary actually believes what she says and what she says has become popular while Bernie says whatever's popular.

Bernie is a lot like Jesus.  I like the guy, his fans are super annoying.

[RedKing]

Wow...we've hit mass shooting fatigue worse than I thought. We have a domestic terrorist incident, and you guys are dickwaving about who will throw more money at the poor.

*slow clap*

And this underscores why I will never be a Democrat.