Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Baffler]

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/11/20/frightened-ignorant-and-cowardly-is-no-way-to-go-through-life-son/

I think it's also (partially or wholly) due to the 'we must oppose Obama at all costs!' complex that the Republicans have had for the last seven years. I'll also note that 99% of the rhetoric and fear has been on the republican side.

I'd give you 65 at the most.

The concern that they won't integrate properly is a little more legitimate though, if the "settle most of them in a particular part of the country" plan I've been hearing about is what's actually going on. We've seen that there's a lot of... I don't think culture shock is quite the word for it, but something like that going on in Europe. The same thing will most assuredly happen here, too, and we already have our share of tensions along those lines. If that isn't the plan, and that's just something the people who don't want na gaddam moslims round har, I guess the above doesn't really apply.

I still think it's sort of like stabbing a guy, putting a bandage on the wound, then stabbing him again somewhere else. The USA has a pretty considerable part in perpetuating the conflict these people are fleeing from. Maybe we should just let it end and solve the problem at its source. That would let Russia "win" though, so I don't have high hopes of much happening beyond sending ISIS back to whatever swamp they crawled out of.

[Bauglir]

my question is - why care about forcing integration? i thought multiculturalism was a good thing

it's not like the brown people are going to breed civilization into extinction or whatever your racist grandpa keeps saying

culture's gonna be what culture's gonna be, and if it's healthy that's usually gonna mean changes like adopting some habits and customs from neighbors and immigrants

i, for one, am grateful for italian-americans' contribution of pizza

no need to get all xenophobic, just keep being a decent person by your own standards, and feel free to complain about specific cultural practices you dislike, like honor killings or whatever, because of course being tolerant doesn't mean being an idiot and a doormat

[origamiscienceguy]

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/11/20/frightened-ignorant-and-cowardly-is-no-way-to-go-through-life-son/

I think it's also (partially or wholly) due to the 'we must oppose Obama at all costs!' complex that the Republicans have had for the last seven years. I'll also note that 99% of the rhetoric and fear has been on the republican side.

Also, more-than-two-party system when? With all the divisions, this year seems like it would have been a pretty good year for a third party to gain traction, but the two parties aren't weak enough yet.

@ the Canadian and British Bay12ers: Canada and the UK have a FPTP system like the US, right? So, how do you guys manage to have thriving third parties? I know smaller population is a factor, but Americans are no less diverse than the Canadians or the British.

Edit: Now that CNN is going to use the Iowa and New Hampshire polls, I bet Jindal is facepalming right now because he's been doing pretty well in the Iowa polls. Then again, he cited cash issues as one reason why he got out.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/cnn-gop-debate-criteria-las-vegas-216106

3rd parties don't happen in the US because of Winner-Take-All. If a 3rd party member gets, say 35% of the votes in California, you would think he'd get about 19 electoral college votes, but instead, he gets 0.

[Aklyon]

So once again, the problem is the electoral college?

[origamiscienceguy]

So once again, the problem is the electoral college?

No, winner-takes-all is in everything else as well. Without any foothold, it is almost impossible for a third party to come to prominence.

[Strife26]

When third parties come into prominence, one of the major parties is more or less required to incorporate the platform into their own, hence party realignment. On the decade scale, neither party is especially monolithic.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realigning_election

[Culise]

But then again, FPTP systems in Canada and the UK haven't had this result (though it has been increasingly argued that this is precisely what is happening between Labour and the Tories outside of regional parties in the latter), and proportional systems in Nebraska and Maine haven't resulted in third parties emerging in these states for electoral votes.  Big-tent parties such as the Democrats and Republicans don't owe all of their success to the FPTP system; rather, it's because they also have proven their ability in the past to co-opt single-issue parties (Prohibition, Populist, Farmer-Labor) that has maintained their strength.  When the major party or parties couldn't accomplish this (Free Soilers against both Democrats and Whigs; the gradual division of the Democratic-Republicans into Jeffersonian and Jacksonian ideals), it was typically that the smaller party absorbed the big-tent principles of the larger (Free Soilers becoming Republicans, then taking on the Whigs). 

Essentially, it's always seemed to me that there's a bit less difference than it would usually be expected between someone identifying as a progressive faction member in the Democrat party, or someone identifying as a Progressive party member in the Democrat coalition.

[smjjames]

What's interesting is that in the 19th century, the realignments happened roughly every 30 years (give or take a decade), which sort of matches generational turnover. Even though apparently nobody really agrees on it after about 1932, the dates listed sort of roughly match the 30 year timespan. Though things accelerated (or maybe just got more fluid) after the 90s.

[Wolfhunter107]

Another reason that third parties don't do very well is because the US uses single-member districts-states are divided into as many as there are representatives, and then each district elects a representative.

[Flying Dice]

Honestly, though, FPTP SMD elections screw over everyone who isn't a member of the majority party in their district, not just third party voters. Proportionally, that means upwards of 45% of citizens in a district based purely on party affiliation are essentially voiceless. That's the reason to dislike SMD systems--not to say that the relative handful of consistent independent voters aren't as important, just that in pure statistical terms they're a relatively small fraction of the people being screwed, so it doesn't make much sense to focus purely on them.

[RedKing]

my question is - why care about forcing integration? i thought multiculturalism was a good thing

it's not like the brown people are going to breed civilization into extinction or whatever your racist grandpa keeps saying

culture's gonna be what culture's gonna be, and if it's healthy that's usually gonna mean changes like adopting some habits and customs from neighbors and immigrants

i, for one, am grateful for italian-americans' contribution of pizza

no need to get all xenophobic, just keep being a decent person by your own standards, and feel free to complain about specific cultural practices you dislike, like honor killings or whatever, because of course being tolerant doesn't mean being an idiot and a doormat

But...but....then our children will one one day grow up eating hummus and pita bread! Instead of wholesome American food like Doritos and Hot Pockets!
(mine already love hummus and pita)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think at this point the America is way is closer to Remove Feta than Remove Kebab, ever since 2010 when the garbanzo invasion happened.

[RedKing]

An opportune time to remind people that Mike Huckabee wants everyone to "wake up and smell the falafel".

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Doubt it. The Muslim voting bloc was lost after 9/11, all the nones are pretty much dedicated libertarian types, and Christian republicans are actually more likely to support you if you bash others.

[origamiscienceguy]

I hope that this level of Republican stupid continues. Once it turns into a pissing contest of who can be more religiously insensitive, they'll hopefully have driven enough voters away that no one dares touch them in a general election.

This is always what happens to the losers of the GOP. They get into hissy fits. I am glad that the top GOP members (except trump) are actually much smarter than they were last year, (Rubio, Cruz, Carson) I want be satisfied if either of them make it into presidency.