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[Strife26]

Sure, but if I end up in California, my responsible well-meaning and well-trained children are not going to be buying an AR unless they have a ridiculous modified pistol grip on it.


Stopping that horrible little shit from buying a gun is a difficult but worthwhile proposition because you need to stop him from buying it without stopping legal purchasing of guns as well as obey strict scrutiny.

[smjjames]

Sure, but if I end up in California, my responsible well-meaning and well-trained children are not going to be buying an AR unless they have a ridiculous modified pistol grip on it.


Stopping that horrible little shit from buying a gun is a difficult but worthwhile proposition because you need to stop him from buying it without stopping legal purchasing of guns as well as obey strict scrutiny.

And in order to have strict scruitiny, you're going to have to allow the government to have some info.

Fixing our mental health system would also be of use.

[Sheb]

He meant strict scrutiny in the judicial sense.

[Strife26]

Yep, although that's a pretty good point. Strict scrutiny in the judicial sense seems nearly incompatible with strict scrutiny in the prevent-assholes-from-buying-guns sense.

[smjjames]

So, we are back to square one on how to deal with guns.

Personally, I think guns which are considered solely military weapons and are used contemporary as military weapons or are military grade shouldn't be available to the public.

Stuff like your grandfathers luger (not implying that your grandfather DOES own a luger) that he looted off of a nazi soldier and antique weapons would be safe.

Edit: Of course though, peoples idea of contemporary might vary between the last 10 years to 50 years ago.

[PTTG??]

I've got one- you can have any gun you made yourself. Nobody, not even police or the military, would be exempt.

[Playergamer]

I've got one- you can have any gun you made yourself. Nobody, not even police or the military, would be exempt.

I, Pencil.

i'd argue consumers have just as much of a role in the production process as any one worker in the chain.

[Frumple]

Might be amusing, that. How far down would you go, though? Do you have to build the lathes and whatnot yourself as well, or do you get to rent them? Buy materials or gather on your own? Supervision during the construction process disallowed? Does the restriction include ammo? If so, do you have to go out and acquire the materials by hand? How deep does the rabbit hole go?

[smjjames]

I've got one- you can have any gun you made yourself. Nobody, not even police or the military, would be exempt.

Except that the gun manufacturers don't want people to make their own guns, seriously, it's true. So, if you want someone to blame for that part, blame the gun manufacturers, not the government.

Although in a time of crisis, who the heck is going to stop you from macgyvering some sort of gun.

[Strife26]

So, we are back to square one on how to deal with guns.

Personally, I think guns which are considered solely military weapons and are used contemporary as military weapons or are military grade shouldn't be available to the public.

Stuff like your grandfathers luger (not implying that your grandfather DOES own a luger) that he looted off of a nazi soldier and antique weapons would be safe.

Edit: Of course though, peoples idea of contemporary might vary between the last 10 years to 50 years ago.

The AR15 is one of the most popular weapons in America. Is that no longer allowable to carry? Is it allowable if it's rechambered to something smaller? Something larger? Can I have a M14? It's no longer a general service weapon, but it's still used as a flawed MBR.

What about a ACR? Military style, but I don't think any country uses them. What about the 30 cal browning machine gun? An AR where I put a stupid california bullet button? Or a stupid California style pistol grip replacement?

Military-style is a completely useless term, in the exact same ways that the assault weapons ban was a horribly shittily constructed piece of legislation.

I've got one- you can have any gun you made yourself. Nobody, not even police or the military, would be exempt.

To some extent, that's true. A decent machinist can produce impressive quality firearms. Looks at some of the WW2 smg designs or modern-day zip guns. However, there's significant legislation on home milled lowers, for example. Additionally, we all should remember how the government flipped its collective shit over the 3d printed guns affair, despite it something that you could build without much trouble with traditional methods.

[Reelya]

In Melbourne Australia, apparently some home-made guns are for sale to crims. They're basically a metal tube that works like a one-shot muzzle-loaded musket and takes a shotgun round. Sure, such things are deadly, but the fact that you can sell one of these tubes for some decent money shows that gun control has actually worked, it's really hard to get a proper gun, so crims use crappy substitutes. A one-shot metal tube isn't going to cut it if they get in a shootout with police. And you're not going to be able to rob a bank with the tube.

And the police have outright stated to the media that they're more worried about the owners of the tubes killing themselves than shooting anyone else, since they're so crappy as weapons. For the record, police have confiscated a number of these "weapons" but nobody has managed to commit a crime with one, yet. I keep hearing about how it will be so easy for crims to make guns if they're outlawed, yet the shitty substitutes seem to suggest that's not as easy for joe blow criminal as it sounds.

[smjjames]

So, we are back to square one on how to deal with guns.

Personally, I think guns which are considered solely military weapons and are used contemporary as military weapons or are military grade shouldn't be available to the public.

Stuff like your grandfathers luger (not implying that your grandfather DOES own a luger) that he looted off of a nazi soldier and antique weapons would be safe.

Edit: Of course though, peoples idea of contemporary might vary between the last 10 years to 50 years ago.

The AR15 is one of the most popular weapons in America. Is that no longer allowable to carry? Is it allowable if it's rechambered to something smaller? Something larger? Can I have a M14? It's no longer a general service weapon, but it's still used as a flawed MBR.

What about a ACR? Military style, but I don't think any country uses them. What about the 30 cal browning machine gun? An AR where I put a stupid california bullet button? Or a stupid California style pistol grip replacement?

Military-style is a completely useless term, in the exact same ways that the assault weapons ban was a horribly shittily constructed piece of legislation.

Well, honestly, I have no idea on any of that. You do have a point on the ambiguousity of it though.

I've got one- you can have any gun you made yourself. Nobody, not even police or the military, would be exempt.

To some extent, that's true. A decent machinist can produce impressive quality firearms. Looks at some of the WW2 smg designs or modern-day zip guns. However, there's significant legislation on home milled lowers, for example. Additionally, we all should remember how the government flipped its collective shit over the 3d printed guns affair, despite it something that you could build without much trouble with traditional methods.

I thought the government flipped it's shit over functional plastic guns which would bypass metal detectors, not 3D printing guns in general?

@reelya: So, any idea how the Australian gun laws strike a balance between gun ownership vs keeping the guns out of the hands of criminals? Theres so many countries with gun laws that work that we should be able to find some way to strike the balance.

[Sheb]

In another exemple: in "Lock, Stock and two Smoking Barrels" the whole action revolve around the fact that the only gun they are able to find are antique shotguns.

I also remember a police report from the UK about guns, which found that guns where so hard/risky to come buy, some gangs would rent one when needed rather than buy one, even citing a incident where two gangs took turn renting the same gun to fight their gang war.

[Strife26]

Patently illegal under American law standards, going back to the strict scrutiny test. The rest of the Commonwealth abandoned the personal weapon part of English Common law some time ago. The result is that they have no legal reason not to ban whatever weapon they want. I'd argue it's a dangerous and bad idea in general (but the virtues of an armed versus an unarmed society is such a sociology self masturbatory cluster of a discussion, it's not one that's especially useful to have), but it ain't my country unless some really cool opportunity pops up to get me to emigrate from the States.

[mainiac]

a shitty shitty "comic"

When a gun rights sceptic says that gun owners are just going based on feelings in a contrived situation, we are accused of straw-manning.  Yet here we find the pro-gun argument is... an emotion appeal based on a contrived situation.  We are supposed to be ashamed about denying this made up woman the right to go down fighting.  And it's a completely fucking made up situation, which I feel bears repeating.  One could just as well put some anti-tax slogans in the mouth of a made up Oliver Twist style orphan.  The comic is bad and you should feel bad because you are a bad person for reposting it.