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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1546377 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3975 on: August 28, 2015, 06:16:41 am »

So this is more than a little hilarious.
That moment when you think you're reading the Onion, but it turns out... wait... didn't I already... what was I saying?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3976 on: August 28, 2015, 10:41:35 am »

the robot Apocalypse is coming! and its starting in north Dakota?

anyway its certainly an interesting development that I'm sure will not go badly wrong at some point in the future.

I think that's a horrible idea. I get why some people would want it (much less risk for police) but...there is so much more temptation to abuse drones. And we already have far too much police violence in the US.
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Frumple

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3977 on: August 28, 2015, 10:45:11 am »

On the flip side, built in cameras that can't be removed and the drone still function correctly. Mandate recording and video retention with loss being an admission of guilt and you might actually see police violence reduce.

On the flip flip side, maybe we need to have employment into law enforcement come with compulsory installation of a camera into the forehead. Then the only way to stop recording is to lose your head :V
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:49:07 am by Frumple »
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mainiac

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3978 on: August 28, 2015, 10:51:18 am »

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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smjjames

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3979 on: August 28, 2015, 11:15:35 am »

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

'Who watches the watchers'?

Edit: I have the meaning down, the actual translation is 'Who will watch the watchmen'.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 11:30:27 am by smjjames »
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Frumple

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3980 on: August 28, 2015, 11:17:56 am »

The answer, of course, is the camera surgically implanted in their skull uploading everything it sees to Youtube.
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Playergamer

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3981 on: August 28, 2015, 12:04:01 pm »

The answer, of course, is the camera surgically implanted in their skull uploading everything it sees to Youtube.
That's, uh....you see the problem in the police being completely transparent about everything, right? Besides privacy issues, (not for the police, for the people they interact with.) what about, say, informants? There's already huge issues about how long police should keep footage before giving it to the public, or if they should even give it to the random Joe Shmoe public instead of keeping it among people involved in the OIS case.

And yes, I know that you're joking, but I also know that there are people who say that everything cops do should be recorded, and made available to the general public. That's just unpractical and irresponsible, I think.
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wierd

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3982 on: August 28, 2015, 01:15:23 pm »

Personally, I am against the use of weaponized drones in totality.

The use of weaponized drones removes the risk to personel that war implies, making it more attractive to use warfare to get what a government wants.  The police use of weaponized drones is the same, just smaller scale. (police more likely to use weaponized drones to bust up undesirable protest groups, et al, because cops wont be at risk.)

At some point, having your skin in the game makes you reconsider your current course of action. That means having lives in peril on both sides makes policy makers more sensitive and thoughtful about employing violence as a solution. -- that means removing that consideration can very much lead to a more violent future, not a less violent one.

If you note, it is usually the "rah rah rah, amerika, rah!" types that strongly advocate drone use. It is precisely because it introduces a strong shift in personal risks to armed conflict, making conflict more desirable. Such people tend to see violence as a desirable thing, when they are on the upper hand of the conflict. The sell it as "reducing risk to our soldiers", and demonize the idea that our soldiers should ever be at risk in a bizare and disgusting twist of rhetoric, intended to draw attention away from their real motive in the matter-- reducing collateral risks means increased utility of violence, which they like.

So no. I am against weaponized robots in general. they should not exist.

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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3983 on: August 28, 2015, 01:26:51 pm »

The article is hyperbole. Non-lethal drones were already de facto legal, the bill just bans lethal weapons without banning non-lethal ones.
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Helgoland

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3984 on: August 28, 2015, 01:43:46 pm »

Personally, I am against the use of weaponized drones in totality.

The use of weaponized drones removes the risk to personel that war implies, making it more attractive to use warfare to get what a government wants.
The same could be said for the use of stealth bombers against nations with no adequate air defenses, but for some strange reason the US isn't carpet bombing African states to get their riches...
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Baffler

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3985 on: August 28, 2015, 01:50:07 pm »

Personally, I am against the use of weaponized drones in totality.

The use of weaponized drones removes the risk to personel that war implies, making it more attractive to use warfare to get what a government wants.
The same could be said for the use of stealth bombers against nations with no adequate air defenses, but for some strange reason the US isn't carpet bombing African states to get their riches...

Well yeah, you can't just No CB some random place. What he's saying is that the risks entailed by action are lower, so action can be taken more freely where it can already be justified. Which is not an ideal state of affairs, given the average quality of justifications we've been seeing. Maybe one day we will see drones flying over African countries blowing up random stuff to 'ensure regional stability.'
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PyroDesu

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3986 on: August 28, 2015, 01:51:20 pm »

Personally, I am against the use of weaponized drones in totality.

The use of weaponized drones removes the risk to personel that war implies, making it more attractive to use warfare to get what a government wants.  The police use of weaponized drones is the same, just smaller scale. (police more likely to use weaponized drones to bust up undesirable protest groups, et al, because cops wont be at risk.)

At some point, having your skin in the game makes you reconsider your current course of action. That means having lives in peril on both sides makes policy makers more sensitive and thoughtful about employing violence as a solution. -- that means removing that consideration can very much lead to a more violent future, not a less violent one.

If you note, it is usually the "rah rah rah, amerika, rah!" types that strongly advocate drone use. It is precisely because it introduces a strong shift in personal risks to armed conflict, making conflict more desirable. Such people tend to see violence as a desirable thing, when they are on the upper hand of the conflict. The sell it as "reducing risk to our soldiers", and demonize the idea that our soldiers should ever be at risk in a bizare and disgusting twist of rhetoric, intended to draw attention away from their real motive in the matter-- reducing collateral risks means increased utility of violence, which they like.

So no. I am against weaponized robots in general. they should not exist.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about cruise missiles? Or drones used as spotter platforms for more precise artillery bombardment (from what I know, using offshore platforms ie. battleships and whatnot, this has been done before)?

Both have the same core issue as weaponized drones, you know. They "removes the risk to personel[sic] that war implies, making it more attractive to use warfare to get what a government wants." just as much - between a drone with a Hellfire missile controlled by someone in the US, a Tomahawk cruise missile with nobody controlling it but a set of coordinates and the GPS satellites, or an artillery shell with the operator many miles away and no in-flight control at all, what do you think is best?

Obviously not relevant to police drones, but your context includes those for warfare. How is a drone any worse than the stand-off weapons that have come before? If anything, it's better - there is a human operator at the controls at all times, even if they're not physically present.

EDIT: Also, this is personal opinion notwithstanding. I'm not the biggest fan of how UCAVs have been used so far, but nor am I of a lot of other things, and UCAVs are a least-bad option, in my opinion, for carrying out precision attacks, excluding using troops on the ground. Better than a ground-attack aircraft (marginally), better than cruise missiles, better than artillery, but no replacement for people on the ground (which is partly what they've been used as). None are useless, of course, but drones are better for that one role.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:06:29 pm by PyroDesu »
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Helgoland

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3987 on: August 28, 2015, 02:30:28 pm »

Personally, I am against the use of weaponized drones in totality.

The use of weaponized drones removes the risk to personel that war implies, making it more attractive to use warfare to get what a government wants.
The same could be said for the use of stealth bombers against nations with no adequate air defenses, but for some strange reason the US isn't carpet bombing African states to get their riches...

Well yeah, you can't just No CB some random place. What he's saying is that the risks entailed by action are lower, so action can be taken more freely where it can already be justified. Which is not an ideal state of affairs, given the average quality of justifications we've been seeing. Maybe one day we will see drones flying over African countries blowing up random stuff to 'ensure regional stability.'
No CB?

I think your argument fails as soon as one considers the converse: To ensure better justifications, we should increase the amount of danger military our troops are exposed to. Which is a fairly insane thing to say - nobody would demand stopping the use of body armor and spotter drones, for example - but is (logically) equivalent to what you're saying, since there's nothing magical about the status quo.
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smjjames

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3988 on: August 28, 2015, 02:33:59 pm »

Personally, I am against the use of weaponized drones in totality.

The use of weaponized drones removes the risk to personel that war implies, making it more attractive to use warfare to get what a government wants.
The same could be said for the use of stealth bombers against nations with no adequate air defenses, but for some strange reason the US isn't carpet bombing African states to get their riches...

Well yeah, you can't just No CB some random place. What he's saying is that the risks entailed by action are lower, so action can be taken more freely where it can already be justified. Which is not an ideal state of affairs, given the average quality of justifications we've been seeing. Maybe one day we will see drones flying over African countries blowing up random stuff to 'ensure regional stability.'
No CB?

I think your argument fails as soon as one considers the converse: To ensure better justifications, we should increase the amount of danger military our troops are exposed to. Which is a fairly insane thing to say - nobody would demand stopping the use of body armor and spotter drones, for example - but is (logically) equivalent to what you're saying, since there's nothing magical about the status quo.

'No Causus Belli' is what he meant. You know, attacking for no particular reason or a fabricated reason.
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RedKing

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Re: Donald Trump's Narcissism Appreciation Megathread
« Reply #3989 on: August 28, 2015, 02:35:04 pm »

NoDak Manhacks?

I have to say...while a taser drone/beanbag drone sounds like the coolest thing ever, I imagine I would not feel the same way if I were on the receiving end of said drone.


How long before people start cooking up anti-drone drones? Or just using stuff like, I dunno....a can of Silly String? Or yarn?
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