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[RedKing]

Clinton is probably going to win because Clinton is what mainstream centrist democrats want. 

ftfy


It's more that the Democratic demographic seemed to have solidified their support around one candidate extremely early, rather than y'know....having a primary process. Also, the paucity of challengers. It'd be a different thing if Hillary had been VP. Veeps are kind of the heir-apparent to a two-term Presidency, so it would make sense.

I, for one, was a little put off by the fact that the party establishment kinda went "lolnope" at the concept of a Joe Biden run (and is STILL lolnoping it) and immediately flocked to Clinton and *only* Clinton.



EDIT: Oh, and in case you hadn't heard, Donald Trump is Batman.

[mainiac]

Anyone who thinks that makes this a coronation should really explain their alternative form of democracy where having the support of the majority doesn't make you the frontrunner.

[RedKing]

Ah yes...democracy as "tyranny of the majority". A favorite definition by those who are...y'know, IN THE FUCKING MAJORITY.

I'm not saying she doesn't deserve frontrunner status, I'm saying that maybe, just maybe, she should have to work for it a little harder? Rather than getting it by default because nobody else but Bernie and a couple of people most folks have never heard of (and who aren't substantially different from her) are running, which in turn is partly because her poll numbers are so daunting that most viable candidates are saying "fuck that, I'll wait till 2020".

[Frumple]

... well, she'll have to work harder for it just as soon as enough of the voters care enough to make her. Probably not going to happen this cycle. Maybe for her second term, assuming age hasn't killed her by that point.

[My Name is Immaterial]

EDIT: Oh, and in case you hadn't heard, Donald Trump is Batman.

Alright, that's just cute.

[mainiac]

What does working harder for it entail?  Please, please, be specific.

[RedKing]

How about not having a 60% poll rating on the day she announced? Granted, she had first-mover status, so the choice was between her and hypothetical candidates who hadn't declared (like Warren) or "Undecided". But you would typically expect a much larger body of undecided voters that far out.

Look at the GOP race -- even before the clown car got crowded, no candidate was pulling more than 20% (Chris Christie, way back in 2013 before "Trafficgate").

By comparison, in April 2007 (she announced this time in April 2015), Clinton had around 40% and that was considered almost unassailable. (spoiler: It was assailable.)

Even popular candidates typically only pull in the 20s to low 30s at the outset of their campaign. Starting at 60 makes the entire primary process seem like a bad joke. (Although that 60 has fallen significantly. Latest FOX News poll shows her lead over Sanders cut to 19, 49%-30%). There is an inherent danger in a candidate not having to really be tested in the primary.


EDIT: In a bit of news that completely went under my radar--noted Harvard Law professor, EFF scion and copyright activist Lawrence Lessig has announced that if he can raise $1 million by Labor Day, he plans to run for President. If elected, he pledges to enact substantial campaign, redistricting and electoral reforms....and then resign.

I hate to say it, but this could steal some wind from Sanders' sails if Lessig goes forward with it. At the same time....damn, that would be awesome if he pulls it off. We need a Cincinnatus President to fix some of this structural shit.

[mainiac]

How about not having a 60% poll rating on the day she announced?

I didn't ask what would make her work harder, I asked what working harder would entail.

[smjjames]

EDIT: In a bit of news that completely went under my radar--noted Harvard Law professor, EFF scion and copyright activist Lawrence Lessig has announced that if he can raise $1 million by Labor Day, he plans to run for President. If elected, he pledges to enact substantial campaign, redistricting and electoral reforms....and then resign.

I hate to say it, but this could steal some wind from Sanders' sails if Lessig goes forward with it. At the same time....damn, that would be awesome if he pulls it off. We need a Cincinnatus President to fix some of this structural shit.

Actually, I saw that on CNNS GPS (Global Public Square), I was a bit excited about him, but then he said he was going to run on that issue ONLY, nothing else (mono-policy candidates wouldn't do all that well, look at that 'The rent is too damn high!' guy, he did have an awesome beard though), and THEN he said he would resign as soon as he finished his goal and leave the VP to go on through it. I was like 'Wha?? That's not how it works!!'. I mean, if he is going to do that, we might as well have primaries for the VP.

Of course though, he could change his mind, but still..........

Also, Cincinnatus President?

Edit: Hillary has already been thoroughly tested, back in 2008, not that it makes her exempt from going through it again.

[RedKing]

Cincinnatus was an early Roman patrician who had given up politics for farming, then was given dictatorial power to defend Rome in a crisis, then voluntarily relinquished them two weeks later after the nearby invading tribes had been beaten and went back to farming.

One of the few instances in history of somebody being given immense power, using it for the common good, and then voluntarily abdicating it.


@mainiac: Nevermind, this line of discussion is going nowhere. It's a moot point anyways, barring some precipitous fall from grace.

[scriver]

Cincinnatus was an early Roman patrician who had given up politics for farming a permanent vacation at his countryside estate, then was given dictatorial power to defend Rome in a crisis, then voluntarily relinquished them two weeks later after the nearby invading tribes had been beaten and went back to farming overseeing his slave drivers.

One of the few instances in history of somebody being given immense power, using it for the common good, and then voluntarily abdicating it..

I edited a couple of details that was irrelevant to the discussion but still in need of correction

[wierd]

The problem is that cincinatus was the exception, and not the rule.  By your own description of him, he did not want to be the dictator of rome-- he had voluntarily given up politics for farming.

The closest we have is somebody like Jimmy Carter who, after his presidency, decided to take up international charity work and farm life over continuing an overt political career.

In stark comparison to this identifying characteristic, we have people literally saying anything the public wants to hear, just for the SHOT at being in charge.  That is very much NOT what a Cincinatus type president would be doing.  Instead, they would be doing everything they could to change things from the outside, and trying to avoid being in that hot-seat-- only to end up forced into it-- and then naturally fleeing that hotseat at the nearest available opportunity.

Our current group of contenders is trying very hard to get into that hotseat, and will not willfully abdicate from it when the crisis is over.

[smjjames]

You know, Trump seems like the kind of person who would resist as hard as possible to stay in power once he is in power....... Maybe......

[Frumple]

No, no. It's trump. He'll bankrupt the country, sell it to china, and then go replace putin or somethin'.

[FearfulJesuit]

45% of Republicans think Trump is the best choice on the economy. 44% of Republicans think he's the best choice on illegal immigration.