Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NullForceOmega]

That's why the second amendment exists.

[Reelya]

No, America already has private city police forces all over the place. So they have rent-a-cops, rent-a-jailers, etc. And rent-a-judge, if you count the kickbacks from the prison companies.

[Helgoland]

"the police state"
Ya, it kinda pisses me off to get that word thrown around when referencing America - by people from both sides of the pond, I might add. It's a slap in the face for any person on earth living in an actual police state, having to fear for their life for criticizing their (ha!) regime.
You wanna to see how a proper police state operates? Come to Germany and go to our museums about the DDR - about the SED, the Stasi, the Wall, the Schießbefehl. Try saying that last one out loud: Schießbefehl. 'Shooting order'. The order to kill anyone trying to leave the state by climbing the wall: That was the Schießbefehl, and it was executed with Prussian precision. That's what a police state looks like - and comparing police yelling at people to that is just plain disrespectful.


Not that the stuff going on in baltimore was all ice cream and happy times, but nobody stands to benefit from terminology abuse - especially since it invites political opponents to call your statements exaggerations and lies.

[Descan]

Hello Uncle Bernie.

[Reelya]

Well, the police in America really couldn't care less about the "State" so it's not a police "state". The American police are more like a cartel. Basically you screw with the police, bad things happen.

[SalmonGod]

Well, at least you don't have private cops yet...

It could be argued that the police force is collectively owned by and works for by big business and the general upper class.  I've written about this many times here.  They typically get lots of big donations from big businesses and wealthy individuals whenever events call for police to rough people up or violate some rights in response to challenges against power.  And it's even standard practice for donations to be made to legal insurance funds in advance of planned political events, so that the city can better afford to pay out settlements, knowing that they will have to do so for illegal handling of protesters.

"the police state"
Ya, it kinda pisses me off to get that word thrown around when referencing America - by people from both sides of the pond, I might add. It's a slap in the face for any person on earth living in an actual police state, having to fear for their life for criticizing their (ha!) regime.
You wanna to see how a proper police state operates? Come to Germany and go to our museums about the DDR - about the SED, the Stasi, the Wall, the Schießbefehl. Try saying that last one out loud: Schießbefehl. 'Shooting order'. The order to kill anyone trying to leave the state by climbing the wall: That was the Schießbefehl, and it was executed with Prussian precision. That's what a police state looks like - and comparing police yelling at people to that is just plain disrespectful.


Not that the stuff going on in baltimore was all ice cream and happy times, but nobody stands to benefit from terminology abuse - especially since it invites political opponents to call your statements exaggerations and lies.

And I think that kind of thing qualifies the police state terminology.  Qualification should not be based on the severity of behavior, so much as the intention.  And it's an open question as to whether or not police would behave as badly as your examples if it became necessary for them to do so in order to maintain their establishments.  I don't know why you think the "Shooting order" thing is anything special anyway, when American police are basically trained to immediately kill anyone who they think for an instant poses any threat of physical harm to them, and are regularly ruled justified in killing people just for attempting to escape.

[Reelya]

That would make sense of their actions in Baltimore. If they're getting donations from businesses to protect them from rioters and looters, then they have a direct financial interest in stirring up those same rioters and looters. Making those actions basically a form of protection money. Civilians getting out and cleaning up the town would work against the perception that the police are the only thing standing between business owners and armageddon.

[Bauglir]

From eyewitness Dan McGregor

"I want everyone to know what's happening in Baltimore.

I rolled up to Penn and North at 10:30 AM. There was a massive clean-up effort organized to start at 10 AM. When I got there, everything in the public realm was already cleaned up, and people were cleaning up the legendary trash piles that are strewn randomly about the city (if you live in a poorer city or a poorer neighborhood, you know what I'm talking about, the piles of trash that are just around town). The end result was a west side that was going to be cleaner than it was to begin with.

There were 100's of people out, all races, all ages, all demeanors. Totally peaceful, quiet. It was amazing. Everybody was working hand-in-hand to clean up the city, spread out along North Ave and its immediate side streets. People were talking about what was happening and why. People were expressing themselves. This is ideal.

At around 11:30 AM, there was a large-scale police mobilization at Penn and North. No idea why. A bus, an armored vehicle, several vans, several cars. A medium-sized police force, in full riot gear, with automatic weapons, some National Guard troops. The vehicles were all Anne Arundell County and I'm guessing the cops were too.

The cops showed up and shut down a couple of blocks. They cut people off from their residencies and places of work. They stopped people from cleaning. They formed a line and inched forward, telling people to get off the street, that this is a State of Emergency so this street has to be shut down.

Why? Why were the cops there? Why were they shutting down the street? Why did they stop a community effort to clean up? Why did they disrupt the daily business of residents and employees? Why did they arrive in full riot gear to deal with 100's of people armed only with shovels, brooms, trashbags, and gloves?

This is agitating. This is belligerent. This is picking a fight. If the cops hadn't come, nothing would have happened beyond people cleaning and going about another day of their lives. Now that the cops are there, trying to intimidate and agitate, there's a risk of things exploding again.

You know what I saw? I saw police yelling at people, intimidating people, making moves without provocation. And I saw gang members calmly, reasonably asking people to move, asking people to play along, asking people to stay calm and not to provoke the police.

The media won't tell you that. The police state is REAL. This shit HAPPENS. The police are NOT here to protect ANYBODY right now. They are BRINGING THE DANGER WITH THEM. They are BRINGING THE VIOLENCE WITH THEM.

THAT IS REAL, DON'T LET THE NEWS TELL YOU OTHERWISE, THAT IS REAL."

I wonder how many people who question the sense of rioters destroying their own city will question the sense of police keeping their city destroyed.

[Zangi]

Obviously we can't allow large numbers of people to peacefully assemble unless they get the appropriate paperwork in advance of notifying the proper authorities.  Though, that only applies if you don't have any clout.
/s

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Zangi]

People think that something could have been done, if they only spoke up about the problems in the first place. 

Sure, we can talk it out, so you can feel better.  I might say hi to the police chief, shoot the breeze and go back to you and say, "Yea, I talked with my people and we are working something out".  Job complete.  Then I'll shove it under the carpet and forget about it.

[FearfulJesuit]

The Atlantic thinks Ohio's John Kasich would make a good dark horse candidate for a GOP general election win. I need to update the OP; before long the list of GOP governors and senators who aren't running for president might be shorter than the list of those that are...

[mainiac]

Bernie Sanders is also actually running unlike most of the democrats listed.

[nenjin]

I'm baffled we live in a society where there are riots over teams losing a football game, yet people have such difficulty believing that someone can be driven to irrational, violent anger because of decades of racism, repeated deaths in their community with no justice, and police intentionally raising tension toward the point of conflict.

And thus you start to see the inherent racism in what's going on here. When white people trash their town because they're drunken idiots, it's deplorable. But not as deplorable as black people actually rioiting with legitimate grievances. Then they're just "thugs" and their reasons are incomprehensible to the average citizen. It's always been a case to me of not being able to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, because the life of an inner city black male isn't something your average white person can even conceive of.

[Frumple]

No... no, they can conceive of it. I've seen average white folks sat down and explained through things, and for at least a little while they understood. They just don't want to, or aren't exposed to it enough the idea really sinks it. Not much of a functional difference, I guess, but... it's not like the folks in question can't understand. They've made themselves a lot of (bullshit) reasons not to, but the capability is there.