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[smjjames]

How about that economic situation, though?  We're probably the least financially secure generation since the Depression and the Depression wasn't really accompanied by so much technological and societal change.

What about it? The economic situation isn't entirely caused by conservative ideology, but... it's not terribly far from it. Much of the current problem has been caused by either warmongering or letting businesses do whatever the blazes they please, both of which are more or less cornerstones of the GOP platform. And a lot of things I've heard proposed are basically "How to bugger the economy and (especially) the consumer 101". Admittedly neither side has a monopoly on those sort of propositions, but it often seems the GOP is particularly fond of them

And hell, it's only been one of the parties that have been repeatedly threatening to completely destroy both the american economy and, to a large extent, the entire freaking world's. It's hard to turn to the party threatening nation-wide default for economic policy, y'know?

And think going default is a chestthumping, v-sign flashing victory to have victory parades about.

Okay, I may be exaggerating it a bit, but I can seriously imagine them shouting 'victory!' when a default happens, and then everybody else giving them death glares.

[misko27]

It's important to remember that there are serious divisions within the Republican party. Hell, one reason some Republicans voted against the one and three week extensions was because they thought that one and three week extensions were absurd. The reason the party is sorta flopping about is that there is, definitely, an influential faction which thumps their chests and considers shutdowns victories, same as there is one which is utterly horrified by the economic consequences, and one horrified by the political consequences (and one poor small faction that's just horrified, period), and other factions with their own set of interests. All of them are grasping towards their own goals, and in situations like the DHS standoff when there is little to no overlap between those goals, they falter.

In the end, the only way Boehner got it done was by relying on democratic votes instead.

[FearfulJesuit]

Exactly. Boehner's one of the weakest speakers in the history of Congress- he can't get re-elected to the position without infighting, and has to pass run-of-the-mill funding legislation with the opposition's votes.

[Rez]

Indeed. Even my politically apathetic, Not That Liberal friend referred to our country as a Dystopia the other day, to my surprise. In all honesty, I may be overblowing the whole thing a bit - There's some wishful thinking in there. But I do think that the republican party is going to have a rough time of it.

I don't think it's odd to feel that way, regardless of your political alignment.  There are plenty of problems and actions to be upset about from any perspective.

[RedKing]

When Peter "Muslims want Sharia law in New York City" King is saying you're not in touch with reality, you done been called out, son.

[Zrk2]

My point is that there's no way they could win my vote without pretty much ditching their entire ideology and probably alienating the overwhelming majority of their constituents, and even then it'd take a while and fairly extreme commitment, which is unlikely. I don't have that much experience, but I have reason to believe that much of my generation is in at least vague agreement. This means that there's little viable way for them to get into a position where they can get a significant potion of us to vote for them without having to cross a large chasm where practically nobody at all will vote for them. The longer they postpone crossing this chasm, they bigger and deeper it'll get, until eventually they'll find themselves dragged of the edge into the depths.

You have to consider though, that you're most likely no where near their target demographic, though.

I expect this to lead to the dissolution of the republican party, and eventually the fission of the democratic party to fill the resulting gap.

I've been calling this for years. The Republicans will go through some Wilderness Years, a la the Conservatives in Canada did back in the 90s, but they're so fractured I see the whole thing coming much more apart. In the end the Republicans will cease to exist, the Democrats will rule for 10-12 years, then they'll collapse under their own weight. Then the Democrats will either slide to the right as the more Progressive elements splinter off into a new party, or they split into several new parties and you go Greece-like.

[Angle]

You have to consider though, that you're most likely no where near their target demographic, though.

No, but neither is most of America. That's my point, and yours too, it looks like: their appeal is too narrow, and they've alienated everyone else.

I've been calling this for years. The Republicans will go through some Wilderness Years, a la the Conservatives in Canada did back in the 90s, but they're so fractured I see the whole thing coming much more apart. In the end the Republicans will cease to exist, the Democrats will rule for 10-12 years, then they'll collapse under their own weight. Then the Democrats will either slide to the right as the more Progressive elements splinter off into a new party, or they split into several new parties and you go Greece-like.

Again, we're a first past the post system, which makes third parties unsustainable unless they glom on to one of the big two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

[dragonshardz]

(Anyone remember Herman Cain? Anyone? Anyone?)

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

All joking aside - does anyone expect 2016 to be any different from all the years before? Picking the least-worst of candidates from the Democratic/GOP divide or essentially throwing away your vote on a third-party.

[smjjames]

(Anyone remember Herman Cain? Anyone? Anyone?)

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

All joking aside - does anyone expect 2016 to be any different from all the years before? Picking the least-worst of candidates from the Democratic/GOP divide or essentially throwing away your vote on a third-party.

No. My experience really only goes back to 2000 elections though. I voted Bush in 2004 because my reasoning was along the lines of 'theres a war going, so.....'. Of course though, I wasn't as fully informed about Bush and maybe giving him a second chance. Okay I don't remember the exact reasoning behind that, plus his opponent was John Kerry, so.... Would have chosen Gore in 2000 if I was old enough to vote (wasn't QUITE old enough).

Whether the republican field will be as heavily contended as it was last two elections, time will tell. They've got no shortage of candidates.

Meanwhile, on the democrat side, Hillary has been effectively crowned already and possible candidates are pretty sparse.

[RedKing]

She was effectively crowned in 2008 too, as memory serves. Funny things happen in politics...


As much as people have been saying "The Republican Party is going to self-destruct and be cast out of power for 40 years, wandering like Moses in the desert" for the last eight years (and yes, people started saying that after the 2006 midterms)....I just don't see it happening. There is no "marketplace of ideas" anymore. Even if the Republican platform is to give every man, woman and child in America a steaming shit sandwich, there are still a good 30-40% of the population who will proudly vote for that shit sandwich because God, freedom, bald eagles, something something. And then blame the Democrats for the shit sandwich.

There are regions of the country where Republicans could openly kill someone, steal their money, and piss on the corpse and STILL get elected. At this point, I'm just trying to figure out how in holy fuck the Republicans still have their power firmly entrenched in our state legislature, after six years of the most pants-on-head 'tardburger legislative sessions in the history of North Carolina (and mind you, this is a state that had an official eugenics board up until the 1970's). Where they have been BLATANTLY crooked and power-grabbing and trying to change all the rules now that they're in power, to prevent ever losing power again. And still, a terrifying number of people support them because "least they ain't Democrats".

Polarization and the reduction of political allegiance to tribalism is a more potent force than most people give credit to.

[Bauglir]

this is a state that had an official eugenics board up until the 1970's

If it makes you feel better, Alabama didn't get antimiscegenation laws off the books until 2000.

[RedKing]

I dunno....keeping people from marrying seems somewhat less institutionally evil than government boards that would sterilize people for being too dumb, or too weak (or too poor, as it frequently turned out).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Unfortunately, while Alabama's anti-miscegenation laws went unenforced since Loving v. Virginia, the North Carolina Eugenics Board practiced their trade up until they were shut down. I had a great-uncle with Down's Syndrome (who lived to an impressive 56 years old) who was sterilized by the state and later given reparations.

[mainiac]

Polarization and the reduction of political allegiance to tribalism is a more potent force than most people give credit to.

If we didn't see party loyalty regardless of circumstances in a two party system, something would be very wrong.  I think the problem (beyond the first past the post system) is that no one is going to win with a primary challenge over this stuff.

[RedKing]

Polarization and the reduction of political allegiance to tribalism is a more potent force than most people give credit to.

If we didn't see party loyalty regardless of circumstances in a two party system, something would be very wrong.  I think the problem (beyond the first past the post system) is that no one is going to win with a primary challenge over this stuff.

Except when the dividing line between the parties moves so far to one side that a huge swath of the electorate is no longer accurately represented by them. You have people who still vote Republican who are nowhere near as right-wing as the party is, and who may well be to the left of conservative Democrats. My ex-father-in-law is one of those classic "New York Republicans" that is horrified by the NC GOP, but still votes Republican at the national level (and some state level races) just because....well, his family has always been Republican.