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[BFEL]

Yes, because that worked out so well with the Nazis and Bolsheviks.

It SORT OF did. I mean, if you consider the Nazi movement as one big cry for help from Germany then I mean they turned from having nothing before it to being "that cheerful place with all the booze" afterwards....

[mainiac]

It SORT OF did. I mean, if you consider the Nazi movement as one big cry for help from Germany then I mean they turned from having nothing before it to being "that cheerful place with all the booze" afterwards....

Well, apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health the Germans had nothing.

[smjjames]

Yes, because that worked out so well with the Nazis and Bolsheviks.

It SORT OF did. I mean, if you consider the Nazi movement as one big cry for help from Germany then I mean they turned from having nothing before it to being "that cheerful place with all the booze" afterwards....

It wasn't 'nothing before it', Germany was severely humiliated and sanctioned after WWI. From what I know, Nazism basically grew out of the German peoples (and Hitlers) resentment after WWI. Plus some stuff about the faliures of the government after WWI.

The Bolsheveks were throwing off the yoke of the Monarchy.

[wierd]

Pretty much.

The better parallel is with WWI germany-- where they were brought in due to diplomatic ties with austria, over the death of the arch-duke, then subsequently turned their sciences and resources toward the atrocities of war.

The WWII parallel would be a hypothetical future, where a fallen US is given powerful world sanctions to never again be a world superpower, choosing to ignore that, becoming ever more militarized again, and taking American Exceptionalism to dizzying heights. (EG, WW4, not WW3)

[Spehss _]

It SORT OF did. I mean, if you consider the Nazi movement as one big cry for help from Germany then I mean they turned from having nothing before it to being "that cheerful place with all the booze" afterwards....

Well, apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health the Germans had nothing.

Not to mention an economic depression and rather large war debt from WWI, if I recall correctly.

[wierd]

For the record, I dont feel that Trump's major terror is going full Hitler himself---

Rather, the resulting economic implosion of the US on a world economy that relies too heavily on the US Dollar as a common exchange format would bring the rest of the world down so hard, that world war would become inevitable.

[mainiac]

Not to mention an economic depression and rather large war debt from WWI, if I recall correctly.

There was a depression, which is how the Nazis took over, but the war debts were rapidly getting negotiated away.  And even when they were getting paid, they were getting paid by just borrowing money from the US to pay France.  Ironically the Versailles ended up being a net flow of money from the US to France and Germany when all is said and done.

The better parallel is with WWI germany-- where they were brought in due to diplomatic ties with austria, over the death of the arch-duke, then subsequently turned their sciences and resources toward the atrocities of war.

Because of their ties with Austria and the fact that they actively wanted a war to start in 1914...  When they gave Austria the blank check, they fully expected Austria to write an invoice for one occupation of Paris and Moscow.  And if you think Versailles is harsh... look at what the Germans were planning sometime.

[smjjames]

Also, Fascism/Communism/Authoritarianism didn't BOOM happen in Germany, it was a proccess over like, a decade (for Germany, probably longer for Russia), and THEN BOOM it happened.

Pretty much.

The better parallel is with WWI germany-- where they were brought in due to diplomatic ties with austria, over the death of the arch-duke, then subsequently turned their sciences and resources toward the atrocities of war.

The WWII parallel would be a hypothetical future, where a fallen US is given powerful world sanctions to never again be a world superpower, choosing to ignore that, becoming ever more militarized again, and taking American Exceptionalism to dizzying heights. (EG, WW4, not WW3)

Only thing though is that we're the one hosting the UN site, which, bar the destruction* of the UN building/complex, I don't see happening anytime soon. The most ideal place for the UN would be floating in international waters somewhere, but that's just in an ideal world.

*Which I DON'T advocate.

For the record, I dont feel that Trump's major terror is going full Hitler himself---

Rather, the resulting economic implosion of the US on a world economy that relies too heavily on the US Dollar as a common exchange format would bring the rest of the world down so hard, that world war would become inevitable.

Actually, I see him more likely to cause a World War by getting angry at something and launching nukes on a whim. He hasn't exactly shown his 'cool, calm, and awesome' side and negotiating skills yet.

Also, him going all Hitleresque is exactly the kind of thing our checks and balances in the government are supposed to guard against.

Heck, congress (both sides of the aisle even) just did a bill that would make sure he can't do something like wholesalely ban all muslims.

[Willfor]

MSH's prediction of Trump doing stupid shit that will be cleaned up in the next round of elections would be true ... if it didn't also mean at least 2 years of a Republican Congress + Senate without a presidential veto to hold it in check. Regardless of what Trump does, the only thing that has been keeping America back from setting women's rights 50 years into the past is that veto. Additionally, it's 4 years with the Republicans having the helm of the Supreme Court nomination process.

I'm not entirely sure everyone is getting how bad that would be given the current make-up off all of that. Hillary can't possibly be worse than what will happen with that.

[Shadowlord]

Unless you're indoctrinated and Hillary is Hitlery to you, of course.

[wierd]

Again, I despise all of the candidates, but Trump is simply irresponsible to vote for.

Hillary is merely dubious-- I can forgive somebody voting for her. But Trump? That's just straight up pathological.

[smjjames]

MSH's prediction of Trump doing stupid shit that will be cleaned up in the next round of elections would be true ... if it didn't also mean at least 2 years of a Republican Congress + Senate without a presidential veto to hold it in check. Regardless of what Trump does, the only thing that has been keeping America back from setting women's rights 50 years into the past is that veto. Additionally, it's 4 years with the Republicans having the helm of the Supreme Court nomination process.

I'm not entirely sure everyone is getting how bad that would be given the current make-up off all of that. Hillary can't possibly be worse than what will happen with that.

That's assuming congress plays along with everything that Trump wants to do and he doesn't have a whole lot of friends in congress (which is both the house and senate). He might be worse off than Carter, who didn't have many friends in congress on his party's side either.

Besides, Trump is actually pretty liberal with womens rights as far as I can tell.

Again, I despise all of the candidates, but Trump is simply irresponsible to vote for.

Hillary is merely dubious-- I can forgive somebody voting for her. But Trump? That's just straight up pathological.

I wish third party voting was actually viable

[Willfor]

Nothing that gets broken is going to be able to be fixed very quickly either. Does everybody just forget that eight years under the democrats hasn't fully clawed back all of the shit America got under your last bout of Republican rule? Because all I'm hearing is "hey, if we let them be stupid, everything will get rolled back pretty fast once the end is reached," and no. No, things will not be unbroken fast. It will take years to unbreak things that Trump will break, and it will be a fight the whole way.

I realize we're all pretty tired of having our rights taken away, but maybe don't shoot America in the head, and hope that the ambulance can get to the hospital fast enough to save it? Or maybe make another country the biggest super power in the world before you ruin yours. TIA.

That's assuming congress plays along with everything that Trump wants to do and he doesn't have a whole lot of friends in congress (which is both the house and senate). He might be worse off than Carter, who didn't have many friends in congress on his party's side either.

Besides, Trump is actually pretty liberal with womens rights as far as I can tell.

... You're reading me backwards. I'm more worried about the things the Congress+Senate that gets elected with Trump is going to push than I am about Trump. Trump is an idiotic asshat, but have you seen what the Republicans you've already got have been trying?

[WealthyRadish]

Because of their ties with Austria and the fact that they actively wanted a war to start in 1914...  When they gave Austria the blank check, they fully expected Austria to write an invoice for one occupation of Paris and Moscow.  And if you think Versailles is harsh... look at what the Germans were planning sometime.

Wait... I have this somewhere...

Spoiler: Found it! (click to show/hide)

Just look at that bordergore.

[smjjames]

Yes I have seen what the republicans we already have are doing.

Also, you keep saying 'your' like I'm republican, I'm not, I consider myself Independent with democrat leanings.

Lets just see how the primaries go really, Trump might not even be the nominee.