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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1570800 times)

PTTG??

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6960 on: November 29, 2015, 04:54:03 pm »

I may suppose, that  chances of getting stabbed by lunatic with knife in no guns zone are not much different from chance of getting shot by lunatic with gun in Gunlandia.

Yeah, this is how I feel about the gun control discussion that happens every single time there's a mass shooting.

"DON'T TAKE MUH GUNS YALL IS HITLER" "Oh, I'm gonna ban your assault weapons. What are assault weapons? I dunno, but I'M GONNA BAN 'EM!"

None of this actually does anything about mental health or poverty or drug use, but it sure gets votes.

Maybe we need to actually have a monarchy.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6961 on: November 29, 2015, 04:54:31 pm »

And this underscores why I will never be a Democrat.

%0.000001 of the country was involved in a mass shooting.  Clearly I'm a bastard for discussing issues that might affect 2 or 3% of the country.

But the important thing is that you get to be an edgelord.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Helgoland

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6962 on: November 29, 2015, 05:11:30 pm »

Okay...
Based on outward appearances it seems Hillary actually believes what she says and what she says has become popular while Bernie says whatever's popular.
Bernie is a lot like Jesus.  I like the guy, his fans are super annoying.
Hillary 10 years ago was blathering on about the sanctity of traditional marriage and now blathers on about the current year and equality for lgbt

Literally just saying whatever's popular at the time
So she isn't allowed to change her opinion over the course of ten years? Damn, you're strict about consistency. That isn't flipflopping, that's a friggin' cross-country trek.

Also damn, I'm filling in for mainiac a lot today. Maybe I should apply for an internship :P
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6963 on: November 29, 2015, 05:14:33 pm »

Sorry, but unpaid internships have a horrible track record at getting people to permanent rageposting careers.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6964 on: November 29, 2015, 05:16:43 pm »

So she isn't allowed to change her opinion over the course of ten years? Damn, you're strict about consistency. That isn't flipflopping, that's a friggin' cross-country trek.
There's changing your opinion and there's being a spineless politician with zero moral integrity willing to say anything for popularity; I'm even harsher on my standards versus politicians because of the responsibility they have to not be self-serving

Aklyon

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6965 on: November 29, 2015, 05:22:00 pm »

You can change your opinion all you want, but if you want to do it as a politician you're gonna have to hide behind a reason for doing so or get dragged over the political coals for being flipfloppy.
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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6966 on: November 29, 2015, 05:22:20 pm »

There's changing your opinion and there's being a spineless politician with zero moral integrity willing to say anything for popularity
okay but where's your proof that this is the second, or are we in a situation where we'll have to tolerate each other's opinions because they can't be substantiated without a longstanding personal relationship with her that (i assume) nobody on this board has had
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6967 on: November 29, 2015, 05:32:50 pm »

Because she is a sellout reform socialist and not a true communist for all her "victories" for the workers are just distracting people from the true message of the commintern.

Wait sorry, I had that wrong.

Because she is a sellout christian conservative and not a true fascist so all her "victories" for the fatherland are just dividing the people and delaying true national glory.

Wait, shit, that's wrong too.

Because she is a sellout conservative abolitionist and not a true Free Soil man so all her "victories" in the fight against slavery are just delaying the days that an army of free black men slaughters the plantation owners.

Wait, damn, still not there.

Because she is a sellout liberal czar and not an anarchist so the moves towards democracy and workers rights she proposes are just efforts to placate the masses while she builds up an empire.

Nailed it!
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6968 on: November 29, 2015, 05:37:57 pm »

There's changing your opinion and there's being a spineless politician with zero moral integrity willing to say anything for popularity
okay but where's your proof that this is the second, or are we in a situation where we'll have to tolerate each other's opinions because they can't be substantiated without a longstanding personal relationship with her that (i assume) nobody on this board has had
Wait, you guys aren't giving her the D on a regular basis? Damn, Bill told me he's thinking about investing in tiled floors because all the traffic to her bedroom is making the carpet wear out at an entirely unreasonable rate.
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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6969 on: November 29, 2015, 05:52:56 pm »

Wait, you guys aren't giving her the D on a regular basis?
Are you giving her math lessons?
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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6970 on: November 29, 2015, 05:57:36 pm »

I think it's pertinent to mention that in the latest 10 years the opinions of gay marriage in the US has gone from something like 70-30 against to 30-70 for, hasn't it?
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Reelya

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6971 on: November 29, 2015, 06:50:33 pm »

Quote from: Bernie "Oppressor of the poor" Sanders again
Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.

This Paycheck Fairness Act will likely shift things dramatically, such that women now earn 79 cents for every dollar a man earns instead of 78 cents. I'd actually argue that the benefit is minimal, and overall focusing on it does more harm than good because it misdirects efforts from dealing with the real reasons for the pay gap. But, I want to see it passed so that the dialogue can move past that issue and focus on the actually reason the pay gap exists.

My reasoning for this is that

1) when asked for "smoking gun" evidence of pay discrimination, I constantly see them pull out things like they blindfolded music listeners and had male and female violinists play auditions, and the women won the auditions more often when the blindfolds were on. While all good and well, if you want to prove pay discrimination wouldn't you actually cite examples of "Man A getting paid more than Woman B for the exact same job" rather than some bizarro world social experiment that involve blindfolded people? It's basically like arguing with a troll who keeps bringing out tangential topics rather than providing proof of their main assertion.

2) the 78 cents in the dollar statistic doesn't take into account weeks worked (which narrows the game to around 82%) or hours worked (which narrows the gap to 86%). Nor do these stats take into account a number of discernable factors that influence pay (mainly, choice of profession and number of years in the workforce, because women tend to take big chunks out when they have kids, and women tend to choose careers which give them the option of taking time off for kids, whereas men just go for the highest pay even if they're locked into 80 hour weeks for the next two decades. And no, we can't part time/flexi-time every profession. That's like saying you want to train for the olympics part time. Sure you can try and be a part time civil engineer, but you're competing with other people who aren't doing that. You can see, if you try and part-time any competitive profession, you're going to be left in the dust, just like slacking off at athletic training).  All those known factors take women's equivalent pay to around 96 cents in the dollar compared to men in the same circumstances.

3) the remaining 4% is the "unexplained" pay gap. Not necessarily direct discrimination from employers, but it's in there. Let's say half of that is direct discrimination, and that the Paycheck Fairness Act cuts discrimination in half. You're looking at a half of a half of 4%, or a 1% improvement in women's pay vs men's pay because of a Paycheck Fairness Act. And I suspect I'm being too generous to the Paycheck Fairness Act here, and the actual changed won't even be measurable. The basic logic here is that - businesses don't want to pay more than the absolute minimum wage they can get away with since they're not a charity. If women are willing to do a job for less money than men (on average) then you set your pay rate to attract just enough workers to fill the role, and they will skew towards women. Men will self-exclude themselves from that role, and there is no good reason to pay more to attract them.

Now, I'm not saying a Paycheck Fairness Act is bad in itself, but what the whole "78 cents in the dollar" argument, while in a good cause, is doing is sending a false message that direct employer discrimination explains more than the tiniest portion of the pay gap. This creates a false target, and legislation to deal with a false target is of course a waste of time - actually it's worse than a waste of time because it mis-directed liberal / feminist group's energies from addressing the real issues. Child Care and paid Paternity Leave are things that would make a much larger dent in the disparity between men and women's pay, because children explain at least 80% of the pay gap. Maternity leave wouldn't help because that doesn't free women from the carer burden.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 07:13:24 pm by Reelya »
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6972 on: November 29, 2015, 07:13:23 pm »

"Man A getting paid more than Woman B for the exact same job"

Well it took me all of sixty seconds to find this data:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/cps/women-in-the-labor-force-a-databook-2014.pdf

Please look at table 18 on page 63.  All calculations are done by hourly rate.

Also, please not that employed women on average only work 4.9 hours less then men, a number that includes the fact that 26% of women work part time and 13% of men work part time.  So no need to start crying over how every man is working overtime.

It's basically like arguing with a troll who keeps bringing out tangential topics rather than providing proof of their main assertion.

Funny, you guessed exactly what I was thinking.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 07:15:10 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6973 on: November 29, 2015, 07:15:42 pm »

Those tables are for people doing the same job title. What is missing is data showing that a single employer is discriminating between workers based on gender. A "Paycheck Fairness Act" would only enforce what an individual employer pays. What you've shown is only valid if you're going to move to a federal awards system such as Australia where you're only allowed to pay what the government mandates what you're allowed to pay based on the job classification.

mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #6974 on: November 29, 2015, 07:16:42 pm »

Those tables are for people doing the same job title. What is missing is data showing that a single employer is discriminating between workers based on gender. A "Paycheck Fairness Act" would only enforce what an individual employer pays. What you've shown is only valid if you're going to move to a federal awards system such as Australia where you're only allowed to pay what the government mandates what you're allowed to pay based on the job classification.

So we are going to assume that all differences are do to a factor that hasn't been demonstrated rather then the factor we know exists.

Where do you get this 4% number from anyway?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 07:21:37 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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