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[Egan_BW]

Ah yes, Ahnold, my favorite governer.

But, I'm saying, from a nationwide standpoint, those are basically the two options.

Or more likely, nobody outside of Kentucky will notice one iota what he does. (And most within Kentucky won't really pay attention either.) And my god was voter turnout in Kentucky disappointing. Yet another thing that Australia gets right, compulsory voting.

compulsory voting is undemocratic. always has been.

That's very arguable. Especially since the definition democracy is "a system of government in which all the people of a state or polity ... are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly,"

Exactly why congress seats should be randomly determined and mandatory, like jury duty.

[TheBiggerFish]

voting is a right, not a duty. Both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refer to people’s rights to “freely chosen representatives”. You say that like "none of the above" or "I don't care" are not opinions. If people who are completely indifferent are forced to choose a candidate, they will likely just choose a name they recognize, instead of someone they agree with. If you force them to go to the polling place, and give them the option to say "None of the above" then you're forcing people to go somewhere, just to say they were there.

Well yes.
And then we might get numbers on how many people don't care anymore.

[sluissa]

voting is a right, not a duty. Both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refer to people’s rights to “freely chosen representatives”. You say that like "none of the above" or "I don't care" are not opinions. If people who are completely indifferent are forced to choose a candidate, they will likely just choose a name they recognize, instead of someone they agree with. If you force them to go to the polling place, and give them the option to say "None of the above" then you're forcing people to go somewhere, just to say they were there.

Once again, absentee voting, early voting, potential for a holiday based around it. "none of the above" and "I don't care" are opinions but they're opinions that should be recorded either way. If you're a citizen of the country it's your duty to let the country know what it needs to be doing. Poor voter turnout means there is no mandate for the leadership because the majority of the people didn't vote for them.

The ONLY reason I can think of that you'd argue against compulsory voting is if you're in a party that's traditionally very strong and passionate about voting but doesn't have the numbers on the ground to actually get elected if everyone actually voted... I wonder which party that would be.

[TheBiggerFish]

... What would happen if a majority of the votes were for none of the above?

[Baffler]

voting is a right, not a duty. Both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refer to people’s rights to “freely chosen representatives”. You say that like "none of the above" or "I don't care" are not opinions. If people who are completely indifferent are forced to choose a candidate, they will likely just choose a name they recognize, instead of someone they agree with. If you force them to go to the polling place, and give them the option to say "None of the above" then you're forcing people to go somewhere, just to say they were there.

Well yes.
And then we might get numbers on how many people don't care anymore.

I think voter turnout is a good enough metric for that.

[Strife26]

voting is a right, not a duty. Both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refer to people’s rights to “freely chosen representatives”. You say that like "none of the above" or "I don't care" are not opinions. If people who are completely indifferent are forced to choose a candidate, they will likely just choose a name they recognize, instead of someone they agree with. If you force them to go to the polling place, and give them the option to say "None of the above" then you're forcing people to go somewhere, just to say they were there.

Once again, absentee voting, early voting, potential for a holiday based around it. "none of the above" and "I don't care" are opinions but they're opinions that should be recorded either way. If you're a citizen of the country it's your duty to let the country know what it needs to be doing. Poor voter turnout means there is no mandate for the leadership because the majority of the people didn't vote for them.

The ONLY reason I can think of that you'd argue against compulsory voting is if you're in a party that's traditionally very strong and passionate about voting but doesn't have the numbers on the ground to actually get elected if everyone actually voted... I wonder which party that would be.

Yes, that is a completely reasonable assumption for anyone against compulsory voting. There is no other reason why adopting such a system might be seen as a bad idea or an unreasonable restriction of freedom.

[smjjames]

Still, there are ways to improve it without going full on compulsory/mandatory voting and I'm with playergamer in that it's a right and not a duty.

voting is a right, not a duty. Both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refer to people’s rights to “freely chosen representatives”. You say that like "none of the above" or "I don't care" are not opinions. If people who are completely indifferent are forced to choose a candidate, they will likely just choose a name they recognize, instead of someone they agree with. If you force them to go to the polling place, and give them the option to say "None of the above" then you're forcing people to go somewhere, just to say they were there.

Once again, absentee voting, early voting, potential for a holiday based around it. "none of the above" and "I don't care" are opinions but they're opinions that should be recorded either way. If you're a citizen of the country it's your duty to let the country know what it needs to be doing. Poor voter turnout means there is no mandate for the leadership because the majority of the people didn't vote for them.

The ONLY reason I can think of that you'd argue against compulsory voting is if you're in a party that's traditionally very strong and passionate about voting but doesn't have the numbers on the ground to actually get elected if everyone actually voted... I wonder which party that would be.

The prohibition party? Yes, that is actually a thing.

[sluissa]

... What would happen if a majority of the votes were for none of the above?

Go ask that one country what they did.... the one in Europe that couldn't elect a government... Denmark? Netherlands? Belgium? one of those, I forget.

[TheBiggerFish]

Also we could mail ballots.

[smjjames]

... What would happen if a majority of the votes were for none of the above?

Go ask that one country what they did.... the one in Europe that couldn't elect a government... Denmark? Netherlands? Belgium? one of those, I forget.

Belgium.

Also we could mail ballots.

Theres states that already do this, California for example.

[sluissa]

... What would happen if a majority of the votes were for none of the above?

Go ask that one country what they did.... the one in Europe that couldn't elect a government... Denmark? Netherlands? Belgium? one of those, I forget.

Belgium.

That's the one. They're still around, I think. Nothing imploded.

Also we could mail ballots.

27 states already offer that with no reason required. 20 more with a reason. Easy to do.

[Flying Dice]

No, I can't think of any reason to oppose mandatory voting except fear that if everyone voted, you'd lose most elections. Is jury duty also an unreasonable restriction of freedom? 

[i2amroy]

voting is a right, not a duty. Both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refer to people’s rights to “freely chosen representatives”. You say that like "none of the above" or "I don't care" are not opinions. If people who are completely indifferent are forced to choose a candidate, they will likely just choose a name they recognize, instead of someone they agree with. If you force them to go to the polling place, and give them the option to say "None of the above" then you're forcing people to go somewhere, just to say they were there.

You could fix that somewhat by simply giving people the right to mail in or use the web to contact for a "abstain" vote anytime over the week or so before the election. Once a person puts their vote in that they are abstaining it's permanently locked in as their vote, and they can't change it, but it would mean that people wouldn't be forced to necessarily go to the polling place while still requiring a vote.

Note: I'm not really sure about how I stand on the idea; voter apathy is a pretty serious problem. This is just an idea about how you might still have compulsory voting but not tromp all over people's rights while doing so. As a comparison the census (should you be chosen) isn't voluntary; if you fail to respond to them they will send a person to your front door to collect your data, and if you refuse even that they get the authorities involved, but we don't view that as tromping all over people's rights because it's relatively unobtrusive in our lives.

Edit: Also holy ninjas, there have been over 18 new posts since I started typing this.

[TheBiggerFish]

Well, I meant automatic ballot mailing.

[Strife26]

And forcing people to go to a poll would involve a massive decrease in voter apathy, result in only great candidates being elected, and lead the world into a borderless utopia devoid of scarcity.


A national holiday would be reasonably cool, although, at the end of the day, it's not that damn difficult to vote and being unable to go through the trouble is a strong point of contention to not being important to the productive flow of the country's discourse.