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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1570660 times)

Bohandas

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2520 on: June 26, 2015, 11:37:09 am »

North Korea is a little different than most brutal dictatorships, since they quite possibly have functioning nuclear weapons. Seoul would be a crater if the US tried anything overt.

It always puzzles me that the US spends so much on it's military but either can't or won't develop really subtle ways to assassinate people.

Forget about subtle, they need to work on quick and effective. Splatter everyone in North Korea with the authority to pull the trigger into a red paste before any of them know what's happening
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Dutchling

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2521 on: June 26, 2015, 11:45:24 am »

how many genocides were you planning on advocating today bohandas
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Eric Blank

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2522 on: June 26, 2015, 12:05:43 pm »

All of them. Although, does eliminating political and military leaders in quick succession count as genocide? It would probably lead to utter madness in the streets, but that's inevitable when you're talking about a power vacuum, unless you immediately fill it, which would result in a guerilla war...
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2523 on: June 26, 2015, 12:10:54 pm »

North Korea is a little different than most brutal dictatorships, since they quite possibly have functioning nuclear weapons. Seoul would be a crater if the US tried anything overt.
Not quite. North Korea doesn't have much of an interest in nuking South Korea even in the worst case scenario. For one, the fallout will all be blown north. Into North Korea. Secondly, it's suicide for all the other reasons nukes are suicide. And finally, North Korea's nukes are not exactly the epitome of reliable, nor are their delivery systems.

As for the artillery, its status is mostly unknown, but it's old artillery. Granted, as Guardian G.I. has pointed out many a time, ancient Soviet military pieces have a habit of remaining functional long past their rational lifespan, but the supply lines are undoubtedly bad and even the longest ranged artillery that they are known to have wouldn't reach beyond northern Seoul. Finally, it would take under a day for US-SK forces to overrun the DMZ, and any artillery forces would have to contend with that encroaching force.

The situation is not quite how it is typically portrayed.

Source: I run the Best Korea Appreciation Thread.
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Jopax

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2524 on: June 26, 2015, 12:16:50 pm »

Or they could just pre-emtively bomb the artillery into oblivion. We know there's a capability to do that without giving NK enough reaction time to do anything about it. After that it's just a matter of removing the loonies at the top while hoping the population hasn't been completely broken into believing they're gods or whatever they've been selling themselves as.

We need to bomb them with propaganda methinks, propaganda and food, get the people on our side beforehand.
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Reelya

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2525 on: June 26, 2015, 12:19:23 pm »

North Korea is a little different than most brutal dictatorships, since they quite possibly have functioning nuclear weapons. Seoul would be a crater if the US tried anything overt.

It always puzzles me that the US spends so much on it's military but either can't or won't develop really subtle ways to assassinate people.
There were many many attempts to kill Castro with various devious means worthy of any comic-book spy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/638_Ways_to_Kill_Castro

"638 Ways to Kill Castro is a Channel 4 documentary film, broadcast in the United Kingdom on November 28, 2006, which tells the story of some of the numerous attempts of the Central Intelligence Agency to kill Cuba's leader Fidel Castro."

It's not a lack of devious plans. They're just very expensive and rarely work.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/03/cuba.duncancampbell2
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 12:30:09 pm by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2526 on: June 26, 2015, 12:20:40 pm »

We need to bomb them with propaganda methinks, propaganda and food, get the people on our side beforehand.

Haven't we been doing that since the fighting stopped*?

* The war is technically ongoing, it's been in a 60+ year truce, if you can call it a truce, and I think that might not be the right word to use. Armistice? no. cease-fire?

@reelya: Yea, it's no secret that the CIA were doing sheneinighans like that during the cold war. We're not into the business of trying to assassinate other (non-terrorist) leaders anymore.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 12:23:52 pm by smjjames »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2527 on: June 26, 2015, 12:22:33 pm »

Or they could just pre-emtively bomb the artillery into oblivion. We know there's a capability to do that without giving NK enough reaction time to do anything about it. After that it's just a matter of removing the loonies at the top while hoping the population hasn't been completely broken into believing they're gods or whatever they've been selling themselves as.

We need to bomb them with propaganda methinks, propaganda and food, get the people on our side beforehand.
Propaganda and food bombing happens all the time, both by governments and NGOs. Remember, the DMZ is only 2.5 miles wide, even a decent balloon can take something across it. Most food bombing stopped under the logic that it just went to the wealthy, though I can't confirm or deny this is actually the case.
North Korea is a little different than most brutal dictatorships, since they quite possibly have functioning nuclear weapons. Seoul would be a crater if the US tried anything overt.

It always puzzles me that the US spends so much on it's military but either can't or won't develop really subtle ways to assassinate people.
There were many many attempts to kill Castro with various devious means worthy of any comic-book spy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/638_Ways_to_Kill_Castro

"638 Ways to Kill Castro is a Channel 4 documentary film, broadcast in the United Kingdom on November 28, 2006, which tells the story of some of the numerous attempts of the Central Intelligence Agency to kill Cuba's leader Fidel Castro."

It's not a lack of devious plans. They're just very expensive and rarely work.
Operation Mongoose is a-go.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2528 on: June 26, 2015, 12:41:49 pm »

North Korea is a little different than most brutal dictatorships, since they quite possibly have functioning nuclear weapons. Seoul would be a crater if the US tried anything overt.

It always puzzles me that the US spends so much on it's military but either can't or won't develop really subtle ways to assassinate people.
There were many many attempts to kill Castro with various devious means worthy of any comic-book spy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/638_Ways_to_Kill_Castro

"638 Ways to Kill Castro is a Channel 4 documentary film, broadcast in the United Kingdom on November 28, 2006, which tells the story of some of the numerous attempts of the Central Intelligence Agency to kill Cuba's leader Fidel Castro."

It's not a lack of devious plans. They're just very expensive and rarely work.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/03/cuba.duncancampbell2

Sometimes I forget that the Cold War US tried shenanigans that would've fit into an episode of Wacky Races, when a suitcase full of cash and a silenced pistol in the hands of a subverted official would've sufficed.
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Reelya

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2529 on: June 26, 2015, 12:54:56 pm »

All of them. Although, does eliminating political and military leaders in quick succession count as genocide? It would probably lead to utter madness in the streets, but that's inevitable when you're talking about a power vacuum, unless you immediately fill it, which would result in a guerilla war...

That's less likely in a country like North Korea than it would appear from an American point of view. The USA is full of heavily armed people with an individualist mindset built-in over centuries, whereas in North Korea you have an administrative beareacratic state where everyone is conditioned to toe the one-party line. Most likely there would be a power struggle but only within the military, and probably handled behind closed doors.

Eastern Europe rebelling against the Soviets in the late 1980s / early 1990s was probably helped by the fact that the opressors were of a different race than the opressed: there had always been an undercurrent of resentment about being dominated by the Russians amongst the populace. You didn't see anything like that sort of rebellion in Russia itself, the battles were the army trying to oust reformist politicians in the coups.

For China's Tienamin Square massacre in 1999 we're often told that many students were massacred in the square because they wanted western free market and american-style elections. This version of the story is plain wrong on most grounds. Sure, the students wanted more say in government, but they actually were angry about the free-market reforms China had enacted from the late 1970s onwards, and wanted more accountability, plus a return to socialist values. Also no-one was actually killed in the square itself, and most of the fighting did not involve the student protesters. It was workers put out of work by free market reforms, who put up road blocks against government troops who entered the city to try and control the protests. Those workers were angry because the guarantee of a living wage offered by Communism no longer existed in the Chinese free market system. So the fighting and the protests were actually mostly because the government had strayed too far to a western capitalist system and had removed communist economic policies favored by the working class and students.

So, for North Korea, I don't see "madness in the streets" as a likely outcome of killing Kim Jong-un. The only two real power blocs are the Communist Party of NK and the Army. And the army have all the guns, so the Communist Party will definitely pick a leadership candidate that keeps the army happy. Civil war averted. The only way to have actual battles will be for the army to split into factions, but none of them are going to throw their life away over whether General X or General Y is the new president.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 01:25:23 pm by Reelya »
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RedKing

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2530 on: June 26, 2015, 01:12:17 pm »

in North Korea you have an administrative beareacratic state

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Reelya

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2531 on: June 26, 2015, 01:27:35 pm »

beareacratic is one word I can never spell properly so excuse me. But it doesn't come up much in my writings so I don't have a chance to memorize it. I blame the French, as always. Way too many vowels.

Sheb

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2532 on: June 26, 2015, 02:28:53 pm »

Can't we just agree that invading North Korea is a bad idea?
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Frumple

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2533 on: June 26, 2015, 02:44:53 pm »

It's certainly not an idea that's particularly appropriate for discussion in the US politics thread, at least until said country is actually considering invading NK. Which it's not, currently. And probably won't in our lifetimes.
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misko27

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #2534 on: June 26, 2015, 03:41:46 pm »

It's certainly not an idea that's particularly appropriate for discussion in the US politics thread, at least until said country is actually considering invading NK. Which it's not, currently. And probably won't in our lifetimes.
This is a solid point.
beareacratic is one word I can never spell properly so excuse me. But it doesn't come up much in my writings so I don't have a chance to memorize it. I blame the French, as always. Way too many vowels.

Bureaucratic.
I remember it as going "First B, then u for some ungodly reason, then all the real vowels, then -cratic". Or learn to spell Bureau and add the -crat ending.


So about this gay marriage thing. Seems sorta important.
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