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[Lord Shonus]

But the fiscal policy he created has wound up being one of the absolute worst things to happen to the nation.

It would be more accurate to say that the public image of fiscal policy Regan embodied is an absolute disaster. A lot of the policies he actually put in place weren't that bad - but his successors have not only taken his rhetoric as gospel, but conveniently pretend that he did so as well despite that fact that the "tax-cutting" Reagan signed several of the largest tax increases in history into law.

[Bauglir]

That's entirely fair. Reagan himself was willing to undo a huge chunk of the tax cuts he introduced when they didn't work out as planned, and raised taxes in general more often than he cut them. I don't think the modern Party would be.

[Bohandas]

Now? Obama may not be the "oh god, what the fuck" horrible, but he's certainly the "this isn't t-that bad, I should live with it" horrible.

More than either of those things it's more that he's a bad leader and a evil person...yet still not as bad as the Republicans.

[Aqizzar]

Vaguely on topic for the discussion of Worst President Evar: interesting thinkpiece that speaks straight to my dispassionate wonky heart.  Long story short, not a single candidate this cycle has so far offered a single governing proposal that numerous past Presidential candidates didn't already propose some time after 1966.  American policy debates are still locked in a variation of the same tired arguments about civil rights and tax-cuts-versus-welfare-increases that have been repeated since the Nixon era.

The static nature of our national debate over public policy, between those on the left who would defend or expand New Deal-Great Society institutions versus and those on the right who would replace them with Milton Friedman-style alternatives, does not reflect any lack of originality and intelligence on the part of today’s politicians and policy wonks. It reflects, rather, the fact that there are only a fixed number of ways to achieve particular objectives, and most if not all of them have already been thought of.

And the funny thing is?  That's not necessarily a bad thing.  America still has modern versions of the exact same problems, but while there may be more than one way to skin a cat, there's rarely more than three or four decent ways.

Where Lind grabs me specifically is positing that the main reason American politics is so exhausting to watch is not that nobody actually has any new ideas for solving the same old problems, but that every candidate keep pretending they do.

>>i remember when this debate was worth having
>you weren't even born when this debate was worth having

[Jervill]

But enough of the highbrow political wankery...let's get back to the down and dirty of the campaign.

Jeb Bush finally declared himself a candidate, in much the same way that an alcoholic might declare that he has a problem *AFTER* going on a Wild Turkey-fueled rampage for three months.

That brings the total of credible (and I use the term very loosely) Republican candidates to 11. Which may expand to 12 if the Human Toupee declares today, as many expect him to (although many also expect him to duplicate 1987, 1999 and 2004 and NOT run after milking the media cycle for attention till he got bored).

I have to say though, Trump as a candidate would be somewhat fitting. In an era where wealth disparity is at levels not seen since the Gilded Age, you have a guy whose entire campaign message seems to be "Hey, look at how fucking rich I am!"


As for Jeb Bush, I think any opponent simply needs to respond with this message: "And remember, every Bush Presidency comes with a complimentary war in Iraq and a recession!"

Is the toupee actually a mind controlling parasite?  Considering many of Trump's comments I think that may be likely.

To Aqizzar: Not even Sanders?

[Frumple]

I'd... actually kinda' doubt it. The states had straight up socialist/communist political groups for a little bit, iirc. An actual leftist movement. My brain's out of it enough I can't really recall how much bernie hearkens back to the older stuff, but if it's a major divergence from what paths have been tread before I'd be a lil' surprised. Don't actually know, though. I pay attention to sanders to more or less the exact extent he influences the major political stuff (which is to say little).

[mainiac]

You think it dates to the 60s?  Sorry but it's just rehashes of the debate over the provision of public goods from the Scottish englightenment.  I mean that's assuming you think it doesn't want to just debates in classical times.  Not enough text still exists from pre-classical antiquity to know what their political debates were like for sure.

[Bauglir]

Vaguely on topic for the discussion of Worst President Evar: interesting thinkpiece that speaks straight to my dispassionate wonky heart.  Long story short, not a single candidate this cycle has so far offered a single governing proposal that numerous past Presidential candidates didn't already propose some time after 1966.  American policy debates are still locked in a variation of the same tired arguments about civil rights and tax-cuts-versus-welfare-increases that have been repeated since the Nixon era.

Gotta keep up that Baby Boomer nostalgia!

[Aqizzar]

To Aqizzar: Not even Sanders?

List off some Sanders proposals.  He's in the news for so many reasons that aren't platform ideas that I'm not sure what the guy's actually proposing anymore.  But I guarantee I can find somebody like William Jennings Bryan or Eugene Debs who said something remarkably similar.

Gotta keep up that Baby Boomer nostalgia!

Considering they've spent the last forty five years doing nothing but complain about how every problem is everyone's fault but their own, I don't think anyone's really surprised.

All of a sudden I hear Land of Confusion playing.

[Jervill]

I'd... actually kinda' doubt it. The states had straight up socialist/communist political groups for a little bit, iirc. An actual leftist movement. My brain's out of it enough I can't really recall how much bernie hearkens back to the older stuff, but if it's a major divergence from what paths have been tread before I'd be a lil' surprised. Don't actually know, though. I pay attention to sanders to more or less the exact extent he influences the major political stuff (which is to say little).

Probably during the 1930s.  The Non-Partisan League of North Dakota and the knock off Farmer-Labor Party of Minnesota were about the closest things we've had to socialism in the United States.  North Dakota still has a state grain exchange and bank, for example.  Of course, the Non-Partisan League allied with Republicans at first, before switching to the Democrats later on.

Also keep in mind that both those groups came about during the time both of those states had a massive immigrant population (mostly composed of Scandinavians and Finns).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Is the toupee actually a mind controlling parasite?  Considering many of Trump's comments I think that may be likely.

No man, it's a sign. A sign of favor from beyond.

[GreatJustice]

Harding gets a bit of a worse rap than he deserves, really. His administration was incredibly corrupt, but in terms of actual policy he was fairly successful between the Washington Naval Conference and the quick end to the 1920-21 Depression. If he (or Coolidge) was President when the Great Depression hit, it may very well have been just as irrelevant in the long run.

[mainiac]

Harding appointed Andrew "Liquidate Everything" Mellon to the treasury.  Arguably Mellon bore the most responsibility of anyone in the American government.

[Baffler]

I actually like Nixon. Yeah, Watergate, whatever. It's not like every major politician under the sun doesn't do equivalent wrongs anyway. The man had two things going for him, gravitas and moderation. I will never allow anybody to forget that the EPA was created by the GOP, and it only happened because of him. Had things not gone so turnways between him and Reagan we wouldn't be dealing with as severe extremism, and certainly not from the right.

Old, but Watergate isn't the reason Nixon is enjoying a special place in hell right now, this is.

[mainiac]

Wow.  I knew he was a son of a bitch but I had no clue he would stoop to those levels.