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[sluissa]

One bad leader can't do it.  You need decades of mismanagement and repression of those who would reform.

Good thing we haven't had that then... oh wait...

MFW an ignorant american thinks that his hurt feelings are the same as decades of military dictatorships, the end of free press and the use of public abductions and secret torture sites.

Sounds like you just described the US under Obama and Bush pretty well.

[Shadowlord]

One bad leader can't do it.  You need decades of mismanagement and repression of those who would reform.

Good thing we haven't had that then... oh wait...

MFW an ignorant american thinks that his hurt feelings are the same as decades of military dictatorships, the end of free press and the use of public abductions and secret torture sites.

Sounds like you just described the US under Obama and Bush pretty well.

I didn't know W. and Obama had shut down the free press and turned the USA into a military dictatorship. That explains why Fox News, conservative conspiracy-theorist radio, conspiracy-theorist websites, Breitbart, the Washington Post, the New York Times, and Mother Jones all no longer exist, and why there are tanks and soldiers running every city, and military tribunals instead of court trials. #sarcasm #bizarroworld

[mainiac]

I didn't know W. and Obama had shut down the free press and turned the USA into a military dictatorship. That explains why Fox News, conservative conspiracy-theorist radio, conspiracy-theorist websites, Breitbart, the Washington Post, the New York Times, and Mother Jones all no longer exist, and why there are tanks and soldiers running every city, and military tribunals instead of court trials. #sarcasm #bizarroworld

Oh so that's why they canceled the elections and had the military clear the streets.  I was wondering what that was about.

American politics has been hyperbolic for so long that we can't describe things anymore.  Tyranny and dictatorship have become any policy people dont like.  When people say holyshit Trump lies a lot no one can process that information.  We have defined all politicians to be liars so that all lies dont matter anymore.  We have focused entirely on the negatives when not even Trump is as negative as the average politician is described.  I wish it would be a wakeup call but I doubt that.

[Strife26]

Yeah, we aren't under any sort of dictatorship sure, but there's been very serious erosion of American rights underneath President Obama, definitely not the easing or reversing after the post 9/11 emotional clusterfucks 

[Culise]

Yeah, we aren't under any sort of dictatorship sure, but there's been very serious erosion of American rights underneath President Obama, definitely not the easing or reversing after the post 9/11 emotional clusterfucks

Yes, but mainiac's entire point is that this alone is not actually enough to turn a developed economy and one of the brightest shining star of a continent into a perpetual trainwreck in motion.  Argentina's gradual economic and political collapse has been part of a political meltdown more or less going back decades, with multiple absolutely-no-exaggeration-or-hyperbole dictatorships punctuated by military putsches and the occasional unstable democratic or nominally-democratic government.  This is different by a tremendous degree from the Bush or Obama administrations.  Noting that the USA PATRIOT or USA FREEDOM Acts had questionable content is very different from, again without hyperbole, tanks rolling down Pennsylvania Avenue or the National Mall whenever Obama or Bush didn't get their way.

[Shadowlord]

Yeah, we aren't under any sort of dictatorship sure, but there's been very serious erosion of American rights underneath President Obama, definitely not the easing or reversing after the post 9/11 emotional clusterfucks

As much as I might think it's terrible, when I think about it, I realize that if I were in his position I'd have done the exact same thing with the NSA.

I'm not sure about the drone program, but odds are good that I'd have kept that going too.

I'd probably have focused more on computer/network security for the government, and trying to do something about the apparently shitty classified network (state dept people have said they sometimes didn't have time to use it because it would take ~9 hours for an email to go where it was directed, and people didn't have access to it anyways in most places).

E:
On the outside we look at it all and say "I don't see why the NSA needs to be able to hack and spy on everyone, that's awful" and "why is government so incompetent" - and if we were on the inside we'd be saying "We need to find the terrorists, whatever it takes, before they hit" - which explains even the misguided pushes by certain senators and agencies to outlaw encryption.

[Strife26]

Lots of people on the inside and outside say exactly that, but that doesn't make it right or prudent.

I'm a libertarian and damn iffy about the laws and precedent that's being made. Poor Fourth Ammendment is crying in its corner.

[sluissa]

Free press didn't need to be trampled on. It was just encouraged to splinter into a bunch of competing factions that all report factually true but opinion skewed messages. So much so that everyone finds "their" free press and you can't get everyone onto the same page because the different news outlets are fighting for the views of their target demographics.

Military doesn't need to march the streets cause we've given military equipment and basically full immunity from the law to the police.

And if you think the US doesn't use abductions or secret torture sites... well... you've not been paying attention.

[nenjin]

The incidence (that we know of) of it happening to American citizens is low though.

[Sheb]

Yeah, we all remember the olddays when the press wasnt partisan.

[Shadowlord]

And if you think the US doesn't use abductions or secret torture sites... well... you've not been paying attention.

You'll notice I didn't mention that one in my post.

The incidence (that we know of) of it happening to American citizens is low though.

Because non-Americans have no rights under the constitution~
I can't find a citation but I remember a court case being rejected for that reason - the problem is I don't remember who, what, where, when...

[nenjin]

And if you think the US doesn't use abductions or secret torture sites... well... you've not been paying attention.

You'll notice I didn't mention that one in my post.

The incidence (that we know of) of it happening to American citizens is low though.

Because non-Americans have no rights under the constitution~
I can't find a citation but I remember a court case being rejected for that reason - the problem is I don't remember who, what, where, when...

The US does not have a universal bill of human rights. Although the preamble of the Constitution implies we do.

[mainiac]

And if you think the US doesn't use abductions or secret torture sites... well... you've not been paying attention.

You literally think the US uses abductions and torture the way argentina did.  Please name me a single opposition politician who has been abducted and tortured.  Ever.  At any point in US history.

Noting that the USA PATRIOT or USA FREEDOM Acts had questionable content is very different from, again without hyperbole, tanks rolling down Pennsylvania Avenue or the National Mall whenever Obama or Bush didn't get their way.

^^ This.  Or toss in a few presidents getting forcibly removed from office and executed.  That is what the actual descent into the 3rd world looks like.  Not this ridiculous hyperbole.

[Neonivek]

I kind of wonder why so many women support Trump when he clearly doesn't support women.

But then I remember that I live in the world where there are Rap artists who openly rap about having absolutely no respect for women... but whose album are predominately bought by women.

yes. because women are not allowed to think for themselves, must only vote for who the Identity decrees is best

Yup, and its not like there's any other aspect to their personality to appeal to other then the fact they have a vagina! That would be ludicrous!

I dunno in my view the reason it is rather bonkers is: "Yes, lets elect someone who has NO respect for us, or our opinion, and that way we are even further disenfranchised from the government"

[mainiac]

I dunno in my view the reason it is rather bonkers is: "Yes, lets elect someone who has NO respect for us, or our opinion, and that way we are even further disenfranchised from the government"

So voting for a politician? [/sarcasm] (dear god the world doesn't actually work that way, it's just a joke they came up with during the 1850s!)