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[Orange Wizard]

And..?  The two party system will collapse if you dont support Clinton over Trump?

Isn't that a good thing?

[Frumple]

Only when it collapses into a stable democratic waveform instead of the politically subatomic equivalent of a mile wide kegger happening on top of a mixed napalm, willy pete, and devil's venom storage site.

[Baffler]

Alright, point taken, and yeah the media bashed her really hard on the email stuff.

Not just the email stuff, mind! I think every conversation I've had involving mention of clinton in real life since the start of the primaries has also managed to shove benghazi in there.

Honestly, as near as I've been able to tell so far as face to face goes, those two are almost literally the only things people know about her anymore. Like, you ask someone what's their problem with her, it's those two things and maybe some kind of allegation of corruption the person in question can't actually substantiate to any meaningful degree. It honestly kinda' baffles me the amount of vitriol she gets, considering the other shit american politicians get up to with people basically not even blinking at it.
_{Also I fixed the typo. There's only one l.}

I've seen a lot of this thing too, which snopes confirms but I can't decide whether or not it actually matters (I'm leaning no,) and some unsubstantiated claims that she hushed up sketchy Bill Clinton stuff.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Willfor]

And..?  The two party system will collapse if you dont support Clinton over Trump?

Isn't that a good thing?

That's hyperbolic sarcasm. Given that we let SalmonGod get away with using hyperbole, we should probably also let mainiac do it.

[RedKing]

Bernie's appeal has always been to the independents, to a shocking degree if I remember the data right.

Independents aren't indepents so it's not really shocking that he does better with the dissatisfied then the satisfied.  Imagine two liberals:

mainiac really likes Obama and thinks Obama is basically the best we can have
Redking prefers Obama to the republicans but considers him disappointing

Is it surprising that Redking is a lot, lot more likely to be an independent then mainiac?  Is it surprising the Redking is more likely to support an outsider compared to mainiac?

Wow....I've been staying out of the fecal hurricane that this thread has become for like a month or more, and yet I'm still invoked as a strawman. That's some quality there.

For the moment, I'm not worrying about how I'm going to vote in November, I'm laying in stocks of food and spare parts. I will likely abstain from the Presidential election.

[Strife26]

Is ammunition a spare part?

[smjjames]

@PTTG: It's more complex than that though, republicans have a 'hate boner' for Clinton (among other factors) while Trump has generally alienated both republicans and democrats. But yeah, it's like 'how did we get to this place?'.

It's a recent development that Clinton is this unpopular.  6 months ago that wasn't the case...
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

I think it's pretty simple.  Clinton has been relentless shit on by the press for six months straight*.  How much have you heard about Clinton not being progressive enough or the damn email server?  How much have you heard of her pushing for popular ideas expansion of family leave, a higher minimum wage, more green energy? How about the fact that the damn email server is the longest congressional fishing expedition in history and has found nothing but is still treated as an open case.  That information gets written about in passing but no one reads them.  There is no story in "Clinton is a normal democrat who supports normal democrat ideas."  There is a story in "Clinton takes fire on her left flank."

* http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/2016-campaign-opinion-journalists-press-corps-reporters-survey-213844
49% of reporters think that Clinton has been treated most harshly by the press.  Runners up were 15% Trump, 9% Sanders.  6% said Clinton was treated the best, compared to 34% Trump.  If you dont trust journalists then have some outside information: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/15/11410160/hillary-clinton-media-bernie-sanders
While we can have a whole conversation about whether it's worse to be talked about or not talked about, the point is that this explains why Hillary is so unliked.  It's unusual for a candidate to get shit on by the press this much.  It's an interesting question of why this has happened but it seems like a very simple explanation of why the unpopularity.

You're describing the propaganda the right has shoved into its own echo chamber to stir up motivation out of righteous hatred.

All the negative press I've seen from the left has pretty consistently focused on political history where she has directly contradicted the platforms she's adopted to compete with Bernie.

Well, that and Clinton has been shined on by the media with the equivalent of a sunlamp (more so than other candidates, especially the whole email stuff), and of course, the whole anti-establishment wave took hold.

Anyways, interesting take on Trumps isolationist tendencies: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/founding-fathers-2016-donald-trump-america-first-foreign-policy-isolationist-213873 He's a bit too isolationist IMO (though not as much as Ron Paul) even though I agree that we should pull back and be more of a guiding hand rather than a hamfisted, well, fist.

Bernie's appeal has always been to the independents, to a shocking degree if I remember the data right.

Independents aren't indepents so it's not really shocking that he does better with the dissatisfied then the satisfied.  Imagine two liberals:

mainiac really likes Obama and thinks Obama is basically the best we can have
Redking prefers Obama to the republicans but considers him disappointing

Is it surprising that Redking is a lot, lot more likely to be an independent then mainiac?  Is it surprising the Redking is more likely to support an outsider compared to mainiac?

Wow....I've been staying out of the fecal hurricane that this thread has become for like a month or more, and yet I'm still invoked as a strawman. That's some quality there.

For the moment, I'm not worrying about how I'm going to vote in November, I'm laying in stocks of food and spare parts. I will likely abstain from the Presidential election.

Welcome back.

[mainiac]

Wow....I've been staying out of the fecal hurricane that this thread has become for like a month or more, and yet I'm still invoked as a strawman. That's some quality there.

Strawman?  I thought I was describing you accurately?  Are you are not disappointed with Obama and the democrats in general?

[Shadowlord]

I came only to post this:
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/728208398261620736

It's an attack ad on Trump.

Maniac: I, for one, welcome our new demon cat overlords.

[smjjames]

I came only to post this:
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/728208398261620736

It's an attack ad on Trump.

Maniac: I, for one, welcome our new demon cat overlords.

I half expected the ad to be/include something about demon cats with your comment.

[mainiac]

Yeah, where are the cats?  Am I missing the joke?

[RedKing]

Welcome back.

I'm not staying. That would be like throwing a match into a room full of oil-soaked rags.

Wow....I've been staying out of the fecal hurricane that this thread has become for like a month or more, and yet I'm still invoked as a strawman. That's some quality there.

Strawman?  I thought I was describing you accurately?  Are you are not disappointed with Obama and the democrats in general?

I'm disappointed with a LOT of things. I think the difference is in the nuance that comes with age.

Young people equate disappointment with rejection, so much so that they trap themselves in slavish devotion. Because admitting that the target of your affections has disappointed in you some way shakes the foundations of the entire relationship.

When you're a parent, you realize that your kids will disappoint you, but you'll still love them. Your spouse will disappoint them, but you'll (probably) still love them. Your political idols will disappoint you, but that doesn't mean a total rejection of their ideals.

I can admit that Obama has disappointed me (a lot), but I still think he's a pretty hoopy frood and am glad I voted for him twice.

Hillary may prove me wrong, but for now she has not impressed upon me that she's a good person. Sanders has. Therein lies my support.

With Sanders pretty much relegated to be on the outside looking in, I have no candidate in the race now, because I'm not a Democrat.

The crux is that your hypothesis is that I'm an independent because I don't have a fanboy opinion of Obama.
My hypothesis is that I don't have a fanboy opinion of Obama because I'm an independent. Not being part of the party means not getting wrapped up in the team colors.

[origamiscienceguy]

How many of you guys here are actually able to vote right now?

[TheDarkStar]

How many of you guys here are actually able to vote right now?

*raises hand*

[smjjames]

How many of you guys here are actually able to vote right now?

Most of us? I'm able to....