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Author Topic: Need help getting water...  (Read 9123 times)

Deboche

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2015, 01:02:26 pm »

I used to have a door as the only break for water and never had problems with trolls. I think it's mostly the rare amphibious titan you'd need to worry about.
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Frostea

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2015, 08:52:43 pm »

Just use a drawbridge. Simple and can be lowered to let more water in if needed. When drawn up, a drawbridge acts as a wall to all creatures. They will never attempt to break it down as they path around it and hence there will never be a risk.
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Niddhoger

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2015, 09:33:55 pm »

I used to have a door as the only break for water and never had problems with trolls. I think it's mostly the rare amphibious titan you'd need to worry about.

Trolls will go for the quickest route into your fortress and your reservoir didn't count for this.  Otherwise, I'm pretty sure amphibious creatures will properly consider water tiles when pathing.  However, super-secure reservoirs are typically only an issue in evil biomes or when in range of a necromancer tower.  Even so, if that rare swimming titan shows up he can and will smash through your reservoir. 

I never leave my reservoirs open though.  I let in water to fill it up then flip a bridge switch to close it off.  If I need more water I just open up the  bridge momentarily.  In Dwarf fortress, it never hurts to be too prepared, and a bridge is both easy and effective. 

I prefer aquifers as a water source.  So many people hate them, but they aren't so bad to pierce.  Nothing will spawn in your aquifer either, so they start secured.  No need to worry about fortifications and bars and bridges.  Baring an aquifer, you can siphon off water from a nearby river or build a giant cistern to the side of an underground lake.  You can also drain from murky pools- just be sure not to actually destroy any of the murky pool tiles.  They have special coding that lets them flood when it rains, otherwise a hole in the ground stays a hole in hte ground.  You can build a channel leading from the pools into a drain that enters your cistern, but there will likely be significant water pressure so mark the areas as restricted traffic and make sure the reservoir won't slosh out/flood fort.  Then use a bridge as a cover for said hole (hatches can be smashed).  This "stagnant" water can be drunk/used to clean wounds, but will cause unhappy thoughts and lead to higher infection rates.  You just need to churn it through a pump first, but like with salt water one tile of it will ruin the whole set.  Thus, when using stagnant/salty water you build TWO cisterns.  The first is a smaller "collection" zone that holds the "bad" water.  Then you build a pump that cleans the water and dumps it into your large reservoir.  Since water must be at least 2z levels deep to avoid mud and since water will evaporate if it spreads out too much, its best to make your reservoirs narrow but deep.  100 units of water will evaporate in a 10x10 reservoir, but will still last indefinitely in a 5x5 reservoir that of the same depth.  You can make the reservoir 4 tiles deep to allow it to hold the same amount of water while having a lower area to evaporate.  Wells will go down any number of z-levels to reach the water, so its not a big deal if the bucket is dropped an additional z-level or two from time to time.

One last concern is drainage.  From time to time a dumbass-kid or clumsy dorf will fall into your cistern.  Now, their rotting corpses won't poison the supply, but they will still cause unhappy thoughts (or prehaps take your last pick with them for their "swim").  Or maybe you just want to reclaim their stuff, either way you want a way to temporarily drain your cisterns.  Thus, before filling one up build a few channels leading to a water sink and put a (lever controlled) hatch over them.  Proper sinks are aquifers or the edge of the map (can use the caverns or dig to map edge and smooth/carve fortification to work).  Then have a floodgate/locked door/bridge that leads to a stairway/ramp to allow anyone inside to run out as you drain.  I like to build an airlock here so that when the first door is opened only a few tiles of water will spill into your fortress.  So, when you start filling your aquifer from that pond/river and little Urist McDumbass decides to play in the 2/7 water tiles around your drain... he won't be doomed to drown in your cistern.  I know, I know, hes useless, however his father might be a legendary axelord with a short fuse... so just drain the reservoir and fish the kid out. 
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Putnam

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2015, 04:35:02 am »


But trolls are amphibious building destroyers, they can swim in and break your floodgate. A non-amphibious zombie building destroyer could get in as well due to not having to breathe.

"No mud" is always there, even if you literally just covered stone in mud a minute before. If the farm will build, crops will grow.
Ah, you're right it does say "no mud" despite having it. Must have been a really unfortunate coincidence when I last time built my farms. But well, I watered my farms in older versions where it wasnt needed so...

Yeah, it hasn't been needed for over 4 years now, so I'm not sure where that meme keeps getting spread around.

NoDiamond2

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2015, 11:43:07 am »

I got my alcohol stills up and running now.


how many stills do you recommend for a Fortress of around 50 or so? I have two right now.
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Aslandus

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2015, 11:44:37 am »

I got my alcohol stills up and running now.


how many stills do you recommend for a Fortress of around 50 or so? I have two right now.
I always have one to five stills and just keep brewing on repeat, better to have too much booze than not enough

Deboche

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2015, 12:03:22 pm »

You only need 1 still in my opinion. If you have 2 brewers it'll be constantly running and make more booze than over 100 dwarves can drink. Just make sure you have plenty of barrels
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NoDiamond2

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2015, 12:06:31 pm »

So, just have tons of empty barrels and 5 or so stills, or just one still and a bunch of empty barrels?
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Deboche

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2015, 12:07:34 pm »

one still, lots of barrels
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Aslandus

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2015, 01:25:23 pm »

Stills aren't that expensive to make so it's not that big a deal if you make more, but Deboche is right, you really only need one as long as you keep on top of booze production

Niddhoger

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2015, 02:40:25 pm »

So, just have tons of empty barrels and 5 or so stills, or just one still and a bunch of empty barrels?

Five stills is never needed, even in 200 strong forts.

50 dwarves will go through 200 units of alcohol a season/800 units a year.  This might sound like a massive amount, but you make alcohol in units of 5 out of 1 plant.  So 800 units of alcohol is made out of 160 plants.  160 plants over 4 seasons is only 40 per season.  50 dwarves only need 40 plants/fruits a season turned into booze.  Plants can be in stacks upwards of 6 before brewing (not sure if that bug was finally fixed... max size plant stacks are too big to be brewed into barrels). The point is, that 40 plants is often more like 10/11 jobs early on (using stacks of 3 from an proficient grower), but could be as few as 8 or even 7.  This takes virtually no time at all for a brewer to go through.  Also, brewing speed is ONLY dependent on two things 1) time it takes to find materials (hauling to workshop) and 2) brewer's skill.  A single plump helmet is brewed in the same time that a stack of 6 would be. 

As other's were saying though... you really can't have too much booze at first.  Particularly in the first couple of years when you are dealing with ginormous migrant waves.  You can go from 7, to 9, to 15, to 40 dorfs.  If you had been treading water on booze up to that point you'll be completely overwhelmed.  Your 50 could turn into 80 or 90 on the next wave.  I always try to keep at least a year's supply on hand... preferably more.  Early on, its not a bad idea to just set your brewer going 24/7 to build experience as much as stock.  Again, brewing time is entirely dependent on his skill (and how close the barrels/plants are).  Getting a highly skilled brewer in the first couple of years will let you keep a single brewer for a long time.  Pretty sure two legendary brewers in their own shops is all you need to supply a mature fort.  Never really played 5+ years after I reached 200 dorfs though, so maybe I was just coasting on built up reserves *shrugs*.  However, by that point dorf labor is dirt cheap.  So knock yourself out and put up 5 stills.  Early on? 1 is plenty.  Draft the rest of the deadbeats into the military. 

As far as gaining this amount of plants... Its just a couple of 1x7 farm plots early on.  Once your farmer has enough skill to be getting 5-6 every time one small plot could probably booze that many up.  Early on I often just rely on cavern meat from traps/"training" my military on crundles for "food" while a handful of farm plots grow the booze and pig tails.  With multi-hauling in the latest versions, a single herbalist can carry upwards of 100 plants in one trip.  I've seen "skilled" (rank 5) herbalist gather 90+ units of plants in about 2 weeks (from embark to first day of mid spring).  I can skip farming for a couple years this way now.  If you have fruit trees though? Psh, farming.  I've had 3-4 unskilled fruit-pickers grab something like 300-400 fruit in the first summer with step ladders.  Combine the two and you'll be able to set back several years worth of food/booze in the first couple without farming.  6 years into my current fort and I haven't farmed anything but dimple cups and pig tails as nothing but supplements to what my weavers collect (spider silk) and plant gatherer picked out of the caverns. 
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NoDiamond2

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2015, 11:44:07 am »

So, just have a bunch of barrels?
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Ancalagon_TB

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2015, 07:01:02 pm »

You still need 1 still! :)   

As far as the barrels, if you want you can also create rock pots.  They are heavier, but they contain more liquid, and can be built of rocks instead of wood (in case you need wood for something else).

BTW, be sure to press Z - this will bring you to a big menu.  Go to the kitchen menu, and you can choose what is cookable and what is brewable.  Make sure not to cook your plants (or the seeds!) as this destroys the seeds.  Brewing doesn't. 
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hamster cheese supplies are low

Donagh

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Re: Need help getting water...
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2015, 08:36:06 pm »

My embark zone has a river in it so my fortress will have access to water. The river freezes in winter though so I still need a reservoir to hold a good supply. I build the reservoir first quite deep in the ground and then build a run off pipe to the edge of the map from the top of the reservoir. Then I us a carve up ramp under the river bed to get the water flowing. One time a dumb-ass human was crossing the river and fell into the water intake and got stuck on an up downstairs in 7/7 rushing water. lucky for him I could turn off the supply with a floodgate and I had a mason take down the wall that was sealing the area off.
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NoDiamond2

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Help with military
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2015, 11:44:34 am »

Now that I know how to produce booze, I need help managing my military and squads and stuff. does anyone have any tips or help?
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