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[bluephoenix]

I'm probably gonna make a suggestion later regarding this.

Anyway, isn't it strange that dwarves get just as unhappy seeing an evil goblin die as when they see a fellow dwarf die?
I think dwarves should get a "relieved" thought when cleaning up the corpses of the goblins and trolls that attacked you and not act like they just saw the friendly mason Tholtig die.

Isn't it kind of weird that the dwarves get so upset about seeing goblin corpses, that they have to run to the mayor and yell at him for months and months? Now, I have only 2 out of 100 dwarves "under a great deal of stress" due to this but the question still remains.
What are your thoughts on this?

[Magistrum]

If you think it's inappropriate you should question why it's strange for you to be unhappy about that.

Dwarf fortress is a world without prejudice, no race disdain other without reason. Have you ever wondered why people are disgusted at the sight of a corpse? When you see one, do you even care about whose body it is? He's dead. He was a sapient. He could have intentions and thoughts, and now he's nothing. I don't find that strange at all, maybe dwarves are just very moral creatures.

[bluephoenix]

...

I can understand that they are unhappy about seeing a corpse because it is a corpse but it shouldn't cause extreme horrified thoughts.
Those goblins were coming to kill them, I don't think the dwarves would cry and mourn over their deaths simply because they saw the corpse.

Goblins in dwarf fortress are evil beings led by demons, I wouldn't question it if they were unhappy about seeing dead humans or elves so don't act like I am an immoral monster for thinking it is strange the way it is currently.

[Thisfox]

Perhaps part of the horror is in realising that if somedwarf had not killed that goblin, then it would have killed the dwarfs in the fortress. Their friends, family, and acquaintances could have died a terrible and horrifying death, just like the death that is lying in front of them.

Also, have you ever looked, really really looked, at roadkill? I mean, if you look at a roo, lying on the road where someone hit it, and realise that it has the same bodysize and weight as oneself, and realise that if a car came around the corner, the same thing would happen to YOU.... well, it is a pretty horrifying concept. The goblin is one thing... lying in a pool of blood and guts... but imagine if that same warriordwarf who protected the fortress were to go berzerk, weapons and all... that's a pretty nasty concept too. And totally possible, probably more possible than a human being hit by a car.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that implications and imagination are terrifying, especially with an object lesson lying there in front of you.

[ptb_ptb]

My personal annoyance with this thought is that they get it when the see the corpse, or part of the corpse, or a sunbleached skeleton.

They. Haven't. Seen. It. Die. 

[Magistrum]

Nah, not saying you are immoral, just that their feelings are comprehensible. Imagine, would the sight of a dead Afghanistan terrorist make you feel "safer"?
(I'm not sure this example applies, but in america it seems terrorists are regarded as bad as goblins.)


Also, adding to Thisfox post, I live in a troubled area here in Brazil, and when I was still 14 I saw a man being shot in the head, right in front of me, the blood on the ground, the guys who shot him commemorating as they escaped on their motorcycle... The man who was shot was a crackpot, he had robbed my house once, and still, I was shocked, as well as my mom, who couldn't even move to get herself out of there once she saw that.

[bluephoenix]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Perhaps part of the horror is in realising that if somedwarf had not killed that goblin, then it would have killed the dwarfs in the fortress. Their friends, family, and acquaintances could have died a terrible and horrifying death, just like the death that is lying in front of them.

Also, have you ever looked, really really looked, at roadkill? I mean, if you look at a roo, lying on the road where someone hit it, and realise that it has the same bodysize and weight as oneself, and realise that if a car came around the corner, the same thing would happen to YOU.... well, it is a pretty horrifying concept. The goblin is one thing... lying in a pool of blood and guts... but imagine if that same warriordwarf who protected the fortress were to go berzerk, weapons and all... that's a pretty nasty concept too. And totally possible, probably more possible than a human being hit by a car.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that implications and imagination are terrifying, especially with an object lesson lying there in front of you.

Yeah I see what you mean but still they shouldn't get horrified by it, maybe "scared" or similar, although it should depend on personality. For example after my family and I got almost crushed by a very large truck on the highway because my dad didn't see it as he drove out of the intersection my mum had to leave the car and take a 10 minute breather where as I felt a bit nervous and lucky we didn't get hit but nothing else.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nah, not saying you are immoral, just that their feelings are comprehensible. Imagine, would the sight of a dead Afghanistan terrorist make you feel "safer"?
(I'm not sure this example applies, but in america it seems terrorists are regarded as bad as goblins.)

It depends on the situation, if they were laying siege to my house to kill me and then I end up seeing them dead as I step out of the house, I would feel more relieved than horrified.

[Kuikka]

I find this really weird and stupid. "Buhuu there are corpses out there a mile away it so freaks me out I cant even see it but I KNOW there are corpses buhuu". And of course, a dwarf that fights goblins is horrified that he created new corpses! "Oh noes, how did this happen now I'm horrified!". When I read those thoughts I sometimes wonder if I should send my soldiers there unarmed... no more worries after that and hey, maybe goblins are equally horrified after seeing YOUR bodies!

[Detros]

My personal annoyance with this thought is that they get it when the see the corpse, or part of the corpse, or a sunbleached skeleton.

They. Haven't. Seen. It. Die. 

Link for others: 0007435: Dwarves overwhelmed by horror at the sight of the refuse stockpile

[bluephoenix]

My personal annoyance with this thought is that they get it when the see the corpse, or part of the corpse, or a sunbleached skeleton.

They. Haven't. Seen. It. Die. 

Link for others: 0007435: Dwarves overwhelmed by horror at the sight of the refuse stockpile

Yeah but "resolution: No change required" so it probably means we need to create a suggestion in the appropriate forum.

[EuphoriaToRegret]

I find it odd as well that dwarves would be horrified after seeing a goblin die.

I could understand if It had been a goblin that wasn't hostile (similar to how occasionally a goblin will become king of the dwarves) but these are creatures that attempted to murder you and devour your corpse.
If I were a dwarf, I would have no hard feelings for those green-skinned horrors.

Obviously, everyone is different, as well as dwarves.

[Dorsidwarf]

The elves eat your corpses, the goblins just kill you all and proceed to the mountain homes to steal your children.

[EuphoriaToRegret]

The elves eat your corpses, the goblins just kill you all and proceed to the mountain homes to steal your children.

Hm...

I thought goblins ate the corpses as well? Maybe it was just that they found it acceptable... ah well.

Still doesn't remove the fact they would still love to put a knife in any of your dwarves.

[Larix]

Goblins don't eat or drink. Goblin civs have no problem with the eating of sapients, which means that a dwarf who's a member of a goblin civ would eat your corpses, while a goblin who's a member of the dwarven civ would be appalled by it.

Anyway, i think dwarfs experiencing trauma when they witness the deaths of sapients and see their corpses is fine and changing it would be awful. Dwarfs might get _hardened_ against it, but that should be governed by personalities and trauma desensitising. There may even be some social modifiers - members of some racist cult who thinks of others as inherently inferior could be brainwashed badly enough that they _like_ the sight of dead and rotting goblins, elves, children and cheesemakers.

[Naryar]

Yeah, it annoys me as well.

Having non-hardened dwarves being horrified by dead goblins (that they didn't witnessed their death firsthand) is nonsense.

Disgusted, repulsed, yes. Horrified ? no. Or only for the most pacifist dwarves, not from everyone.

Starting military dwarves SHOULD be also disturbed by their kills, but no "oh it was inevitable is horrifying" by all military dwarves.