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Very good.

good.

meh.

bad.

Very bad.

[smakemupagus]

This is a dumb question but why are you remaking the whole masterwork mod? Why not just only remake dwarf mode instead?

Lots of core items and things specific to each of the other modes are going to have to be updated too.  Creatures, weapons, DFHack stuff.  Hopefully Meph or Putnam will give us a little check list actually.

EDIT2: Forgot the orcs too!) Orc magic seems like it would be primarily blood-focused, since everything they do is centered on the blood, skulls, scalps, and souls of their defeated foes with a variety of effects centered on killing more foes. In addition, AFAIK there's no way to train an orc to be a dreamwalker, it's something they're apparently born with.

Blood, bones, earth, sky.  Each of the four elements

[DragonDePlatino]

Hey, Meph! How's it going? My graphics set has been going quite well, and I figured once it's finished I'd give the Masterwork graphics a shot. One thing, though...While I was drawing my gnome_mountain graphics, I realized I could kill two birds with one stone and draw some Masterwork graphics while I work on the vanilla ones. So...how do you envision each of the Masterwork races to look like? I know you have some images on this thread, but since none of those images were created specifically for Masterwork I figured you picture your races to look differently.

What skin color does each race usually have? Most common hair color? Most common facial features? Any weird bits of anatomy like tails?

[Darkond2100]

What I love about MDF is pretty much all within the Dwarf mode. I love the wood, leather, stone and rubble simplifications, and all the additional HFS that your dwarves can come across while mining. With my short attention span and tendency to not have a fortress longer than a week, I never managed to explore all the features within MDF. And for me, that was the best part. Looking at all those things that I couldn't build and hoping my dwarves luck upon the parts needed to advance. While in Vanilla, I can always make a max production fortress of absolute defense, in MDW there's a challenge and complexity and an even higher learning curve! And I look forward to that again in MWDFReborn!

[IndigoFenix]

Concerning elves: I must regrettably inform you that trees are not easily DFHackable, at least not with LUA scripts.  The species of a particular tree tile is neither readable or writable without going deeper into the internal code, so stuff like growing tree walls is probably not going to happen .

My advice on elvish wood item production: use seeds.  Trees have seeds now, and it should be possible to read the wood type directly from the seed type.  Remove the default carpenter building, and instead create a special growing workshop that grows seeds directly into items.  The 'grown item' tag can be added using DFHack.

Production using this method would be slow, but could be made up for by other benefits, like the ability to magically alter seeds to produce enhanced seed types, like ironwood/steeloak/something even stronger?.  Forcing elves to wait for trees to produce fruit in order to produce items would be challenging to players accustomed to dwarven production methods, but it would be a unique playstyle, and a very elfy one indeed.

The new trees are affected by time acceleration, and giving elves the ability to speed up time is fairly elfy as well.  This could make the seasonal workshop idea be more interesting as well.

They could also have a copy of the gnomish druidic system, although I don't think they should be able to armor animals.

I don't think elves should be able to produce mithril.  They couldn't produce it in LOTR, which is where the source of the elf-mithril association comes from - they had to get it from the dwarves, so elvish-enchanted mithril (like starmoon) was used as a sign of peace between the two races.  Following this, they should be able to enchant it if they do manage to purchase some from a dwarven caravan.

So basically, elf ideas are:

Above-ground gameplay, even more than humans (possibly sickness when staying underground for too long, and/or no access to picks at all)
Production of wood items from seeds
No metalworking (or only basic metalworking), but able to magically enhance seeds to produce better wood
Can't produce mithril themselves, but can do interesting things with it if they manage to get their hands on some
Seasonal magic (since weaponizing and armoring your troops will be slow and tunneling is a problem, they should have some magic method of fighting or driving off enemies instead.  DFHack can do some cool things here.)
Druidic animal taming and training, but no animal armoring
Speeding up time
Possibly some gem-based magic as well (based on the Silmarils)

[Boltgun]

Speaking of elves, in vanilla I still see them as wild forest tribes rather than LOTR elves, with cannibalism and them not even building houses.

[smakemupagus]

What skin color does each race usually have? Most common hair color? Most common facial features? Any weird bits of anatomy like tails?

Oh, interesting!  I checked out the other thread, your artwork is really nice.  I saw you were working on an orc model there.  I'd be happy to give your new tileset a spin if you do get around to making one.

Orcs, like goblins, are every shade of green, or occasionally ash grey.  Their eyes are several shades of deep red.

What to say... they pretty much look like orcs, - Low ranking warriors might have crude gear, incomplete armor coverage, or wear bone and shell armguards, or simple pelts.  Elite warriors might wear a full suit of lamellar armor, perhaps with a metal breastplate, or a helmet; and will have traded in their scavenged or crude weapons for better quality purpose-forged wargear.

Their officers include scribes, shaman, battlemage, captains, huscarl, warchiefs; each with a couple levels of seniority (local site vs. civilization leaders, basically).  Captains might wear a wolf mask, while the warchief and huscarl might carry a battle standard or war-horn.  Shaman might wear exotic pelts or feathers, or carry skull totems on a pendant or staff. (just putting some ideas out if you're looking for ideas for rank insignia).  Their siege operators, scribes, and appraisers all get out into the wider world outside the tribes as merchants or corsairs; so they might share some kind of distinctive items of travelling gear like turbans, cloaks, or bandanas.

just a random comment, as a personal preference as a player I do like in our current tileset how the warriors and other professions have a bit of a tint of the original DF ascii colors in their gear, i.e. a hint of cyan on the sword blades, blue axes, red maces, etc., so I can tell them at a glance more easily. But that's not a requirement of course, just my 2c.

In the current version, Masterwork has a few different professions than vanilla, so a few of the sprites would be different.  Meph might be changing this system in the new version and going back to the vanilla DF professions, or not - you'll have to ask him at this point.

### MASTERWORK NEW PROFESSIONS
   [MILLER:TAIGAORC:6:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by tomb raider / archaeologist
   [TANNER:TAIGAORC:8:3:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by clanspeaker / diplomat
   [POTTER:TAIGAORC:9:3:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by writer / scribe
   [PRESSER:TAIGAORC:10:3:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by thinker   / researcher
   [GLAZER:TAIGAORC:11:3:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by musician
   [SOAP_MAKER:TAIGAORC:5:6:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by runesmith
   [POTASH_MAKER:TAIGAORC:4:6:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by alchemist
   [LYE_MAKER:TAIGAORC:3:6:AS_IS:DEFAULT] replaced by chemist
        STRAND_EXTRACTOR .... replaced by acolyte / apostle

[smakemupagus]

Speaking of elves, in vanilla I still see them as wild forest tribes rather than LOTR elves, with cannibalism and them not even building houses.

I was thinking of this too, wondering what Meph will do with that aspect of canon.  I sort of hope they stay, since mithril clad elves are much more interesting opponents.

[Meph]

Steeloak-wood clad elves are not much worse.

DragondePlatino: If you make graphics, please in 32x32 size. I'll write details in a PM for you later today. Do you want to do creatures as in animals/monsters, or the civ members? (the large sets with professions?)

@rest: Is noted, I should really do a write-up of the idea, so people can add/discuss specifics.

[Boltgun]

I really like how orcs are themed from historical warriors, even if it's weird to mix Inca with Japanese with Uruks but there is something for everyone. What I love the most are corsair and ronins, both being compatible considering their history of piracy.

Goblin, in vanilla reminded me of a barbaric invader counting on numbers and attrition over anything else. Kinda like a less competent version of the Huns. Them using scimitars and exotic clothing helped. In MW they have been more degenerates using crappy, rusty gear and that's a good theme too.

[IndigoFenix]

Personally, I like it when the game allows different options for multiple interpretations of a race, while still maintaining a cohesive playstyle that encompasses all of those interpretations.  That's why I designed the gnomes as a mix of nature gnomes, tunneling gnomes, and techno-gnomes, but there is still a common theme throughout, which is basically 'keeping out of sight and doing things indirectly', whether it's through animals, machines, or mechanical animals.

With elves, I think that overall theme should be 'connection to trees, the natural growth of trees, and the time of the year'.  If they produce, that production should be based on the objects that fall off of trees naturally at certain times of the year.  If they use magic, that magic should be associated with the season (perhaps even the gem magic should require a year-round process based on combining the different seasonal powers in a gem, or something to that effect).  While other races can pretty much ignore the season as long as they stockpile food for the winter and have a well for when the water freezes, the elvish playing style should circulate around it.  Beyond that, I'd say that they should have options open everywhere on the spectrum between monstrous forest cannibals (or 'fae elves') and noble Tolkeinian aristocrats.

[Meph]

In the old Masterwork I'd put forest elves with seasonal effects together with deep/drow elves together with high magic elves, together with mithril and silver-clad fighters of warhammer.

Now I dont think I would

[Vitellozzo]

Here:

Alpha V0.000001 - Download

Includes: All utilities, DF 40.23 (of course Toady updates right now to .24), dfhack, standardized wood, standardized leathers, and following mod-workshops: Bonecarver, Stonecrafter, Woodcrafter, Gemcutter, Wood Splitting Block, Weight Bench, Furniture Workshop, Tailor and new reaction in the Tanner.

Pure Ascii, no GUI, no manual, only dwarf mode.

Please download, test, and report as you like.

Testing it asap.

[smakemupagus]

I really like how orcs are themed from historical warriors, even if it's weird to mix Inca with Japanese with Uruks but there is something for everyone. What I love the most are corsair and ronins, both being compatible considering their history of piracy.

Thanks!  I usually think of it more mixing, say, Ogrimmar with Orsinium with Orthanc, though, but of course the connections to the real world are not totally an accident

... I really do like having the mod be many things (because i'm going to play it many times, and want a lot of tools and flexibility to make different kinds of forts), I am afraid i might not be too useful for planning the elegant streamlined version of new races though, although I really do agree it's a good direction for the core mod.  So, that's where the optional plug ins can come in

Edit ... For Dwarf players looking for invasions kind of in the spirit of Fort Defence, it might be fun to make a little script that procedurally places different type of invader Orc civs using different subset of the assets.  Hmm.

[IndigoFenix]

In the old Masterwork I'd put forest elves with seasonal effects together with deep/drow elves together with high magic elves, together with mithril and silver-clad fighters of warhammer.

Now I dont think I would

Just exploring hypotheticals here:

It doesn't seem to be unreasonable to mix forest elves and high elves.  Both maintain a strong connection to nature, the difference being whether they actually live up to their snooty noble air or whether they have succumbed to their animalistic side.  Different players can choose whichever style suits them best.

As for drow, it IS possible to give elves a syndrome that turns them into drow if they become cave adapted.  Not saying it's a good idea (it wouldn't allow drow to have their own separate civ), just bringing up the possibility. 

[Meph]

I dont think I'll include the drow at all.

Elves we already have. It would be more fitting to use a animal-man tribe as underground civ. Poisons could be used by Kobolds or Reptiles/Snake people.  These three main themes, underground elves that use poison a lot, are already in vanilla DF, used in different places. No need to add DnD.