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Very good.

good.

meh.

bad.

Very bad.

[heydude6]

I don't have much to contribute but I say keep the archeology. The randomness aspect is lot's of fun and it lead to some great moments like the necromorph invasion

[Meph]

as long as my wasps get a spot, i'm happy. was looking forward to mdf with my race

You know, Smake, Boltgun and IndigoFenix always worked closely together with me and kept me updated, bounced ideas back and forth. I barely hear from you and the Hivewasps. The only thing I get is a "hey, can you put this into Masterwork?", but no details on how the civ works, what features the race has, and so on. I offered you several times to add it to an update post, link to it and see what the community thinks, but your replies were "yeah, cool", then silence. I cant really tell people about the wasps and tell them to try out feature X, or that they can have a look if they like to play likes Z, because I have no info to share.

[Nevets_]

I think adding MDF features one by one to v.40 rather that trying to update all of MDF to run on v.40 at once is a great idea.  You'll be able to add features a few at a time and then release a build, let the community playtest & bugtest it for a week, then release the next version with some bugfixes and some new features.  It will spread out the process of bugfixing and make it easier since the list of possible changes that created the bugs are smaller.  It would break save-games every week but that just means players will have a greater variety of embarks and terrain/wildlife in a short time which will help to expose bugs.

[qorthos]

For my own two cents, I really like the dwarf religion system.  Loyal is right in that a legendary priest can turn out almost everything you need.  I've had forts with five legendary priests going full tilt on praying for metal and was able to outfit a sizeable army in steel, use bronze for all sorts of furniture and had so much leftover steel and silver that I started making mithril weapons.  This is OP.

However, rather than completely doing away with the religion system, why not just tweak it?  By flavor, the dwarf race should be focused on stone and metal, so keep reactions that exchange hearts or souls for stone and metal.

[Archonex]

Part of the fun of Masterwork is the insanely large and diverse feature set.  If that can't stay for the newest version that's unfortunate, but it is a huge part of the draw when it comes to the mod itself.

Tweaking existing content to fit a new version seems like it would be a good idea though.  Some stuff is unnecessary cruft.  Like the various guilds/castes and their requirements.  Humans excepted, they obfuscate the process of getting information out of the game and require a heavier reliance on out of game utilities like DFTherapist to organize your fort.  For humans it's understandable since it's a part of their core mechanics.  For the others it can become a headache to try to track on larger forts.  Especially if you have a large migrant influx with each immigration.

However, removing the crazier stuff like bi-frost and magic from dwarves along with the other races is a bit unnecessary.  Primarily because things like that simply give you different ways to play are by no means mandatory.  More options are never a bad thing.  Especially when it comes to mods.

[heydude6]

This seems like a good place to ask this so "What is the general consensus on the ore refinery?". What I mean is the machine that you must input ore into before you can smelt it into useable bars. Personally I like it. I have no idea why though. I guess it probably has something to do with having a more industrial feel or something like that.

[Meph]

Part of the fun of Masterwork is the insanely large and diverse feature set.  If that can't stay for the newest version that's unfortunate, but it is a huge part of the draw when it comes to the mod itself.

Tweaking existing content to fit a new version seems like it would be a good idea though.  Some stuff is unnecessary cruft.  Like the various guilds/castes and their requirements.  Humans excepted, they obfuscate the process of getting information out of the game and require a heavier reliance on out of game utilities like DFTherapist to organize your fort.  For humans it's understandable since it's a part of their core mechanics.  For the others it can become a headache to try to track on larger forts.  Especially if you have a large migrant influx with each immigration.

However, removing the crazier stuff like bi-frost and magic from dwarves along with the other races is a bit unnecessary.  Primarily because things like that simply give you different ways to play are by no means mandatory.  More options are never a bad thing.  Especially when it comes to mods.

That is all subjective. Unnecessary = Guilds/castes? While at the same time saying that magic/crazy stuff should stay?

I could ask 100 people, and would get 100 different answers.

[smakemupagus]

This seems like a good place to ask this so "What is the general consensus on the ore refinery?". What I mean is the machine that you must input ore into before you can smelt it into useable bars. Personally I like it. I have no idea why though. I guess it probably has something to do with having a more industrial feel or something like that.

I like it as a gameplay mechanic, but i am not sure it is worth the complexity and non-vanilla-compatibility it introduced in the raws and in the stockpile menus.

[Meph]

It introduces a lot of stockpile changes, and I'd need to change all vanilla ores. I might keep the ore processor as an optional thing.

You smelt ore? Thats fine, just like in vanilla DF.
You process it first (maybe only Dwarves/Gnomes can do that), you get a higher yield and some free rocks/blocks.

[Nevets_]

The ore processor's biggest draw was the realism added due to the production of slag at the smelter.  If you didn't process the ore first you got fewer bars and more slag; however building the processor was so easy that there was never any reason to smelt raw ore.  I think a better system would be to have tiered metal production, where using higher cost/complexity workshops gives you higher yields.

Something like this:

Smelter (block)
1 Ore -> 2x bars, 2x blocks

Advanced Smelter (2 blocks, Magma-safe Grate)
1 Ore -> 3x bars, 1x blocks

Ultimate Smelter (2 blocks, Magma-safe Grate, Tear of Armok & Blood of Armok)
1 Ore -> 4x bars, 0x blocks

[Meph]

Thats not how smelters work. ^^ Unfortunately smelter reactions are hardcoded and added automatically by the game, as soon as ores exist. Otherwise it would be very easy to make the ore processor optional.

[Loyal]

I kinda like the Ore Processor. Slag not so much, though it was nice mass-producing potash/concrete blocks with it. Gave me a reason to actually produce lye in decent quantities, which in turn meant I didn't have to go so far out of my way to keep soap stocked. It felt organic, it worked, and it promoted industrial diversity in a fort.

[___MeRliN___]

I quite like what I have read so far albeit I would have to find a new race to play then, I am so... well... adapted to the options dwarfs have, and all the ways to kill off invaders, all those nice sardistic ways... Specially love their mages. And I grew to like warlocks alot aswell (mages and undeads, extremly cool to play with after you got into them), but really if it gets ported to the new version with potentially new races it could work out indeed very very well. Elves would be kinda interesting to see... those  treehugging little annoying bushlovers. Maybe giving other races a turn which were in older versions? Maybe adding something new like said Hivemind related races... or something not being from the world in dwarf fortress.

Like some race from another dimension entering them. Could go then in 2 directions with that race... either the classical eldritch beings race which involves some absurdly horrific humanoids just turning other species insane by their presence, sheer force and extreme otherworldly appearence (creators of those forgotten beasts), but very few in numbers and very... well... otherworldly ways to produce wares (e.g instead of using rare exotic gems for encrusting tools they use them to break them down, consume them and gain power somehow through them, addiction to warpstone... or if possible something like a hydra of one of those beasts, just with tentacles/limbs/arms. For each cut of limb 2 should replace them, only way to kill them is beheading them??) or the more gnomish way of just being technologically superior, but instead living in peace with nature they are kind of just there to take the ressources for themself and spread like a virus while having a propper size in combat (Pulse Gun armed outsiders in exoskeletons/powerarmor with tripod like organic mechs with pulse cannons vs dwarfs with autocrossbows and almost indestructable adamantine golems). Then again, similar to gnomes they do not get migrants besides the 2 first waves, and no trading and getting new migrants besides the usage of some sort of portal which they use to "trade" ressources for workpower... Theres alot of things you could do with completly new races.

Or take the elves, make them the ultimate hippy treehuggers and let them get some sort of tree workshop which extracts mithril and other metals directly from the ground, maybe even processed whenever one of their "Treesingers" stands to them and works there and basicly "summons" the stuff, kinda like dwarfs currently do with their Armok Shrines. Goblins could get a workshop with a reaction similar to Kobolds, but instead they send out Snatchers and come back with children, a new tool (dont blame me on calling kids tools) and those tools could be used for forced labor in certain workshops like a mass production for cheap weapons or to conjure 1 super powerfull demon from HFS to rule them. Kinda like building their dark spires you find quite often. Though that might be a bit too similar to orcs and their forced labor workers they get.

Humans are fine as they are, maybe adding some more depth, maybe adding the mage system from dwarfs to them if dwarfs get it ripped off, cause that magic system of the dwarfs is very very amazing.

Hivemind races like those ants could maybe not care at all for losses, but if their leader/overmind gets killed they all suffer and most of them will turn insane to a certain degree. So protect the overmind/queen/whatever. Or turn them in a collective race similar to Borg (but without a queen) and let them gain strength by getting bigger in numbers. If your people get cut down then... well your effective strength like fast learning, prediction of enemy movements (dodging in fights etc) gets lowered aswell. To
counterbalance that they might be very frail or dont get good armor or just again, growing in numbers could be a bit harder then for other races.

And somewhere there was mentioned that the new version has some sort of "Angel" or "Guardian" beings. Not sure what to do with those though. Might be fun to see the opposite of HFS/Seductive Succubus aswell.

Also... limb replacements... nothing high tech like you would expect from gnomes. But a dwarven cheesemaker who has lost his leg to a giant earthworm somehow while trying to get a pourring maggot could get a wooden replacement. Like a crutch, but more efficient on the long term. Or hooks which help a few things and deal as second weapon in case you keep one armed people in your army or something? Is that possible in the new version? Would be fun if so.


Well yeah anyways, would love to see a new version and enjoy playing that, albeit I keep the current version and the possible fix aswell cause once in a while that superior feeling when having an army of adamantine golems with adamantine plated legendary skilled dwarfs with wolfram crossbows with adamantine bolts or adamantine swords while most of them being mages is just... well... godly. While those poor little goblins cant do much if they dont bring mounts like war raptors or such.

[Archonex]

Part of the fun of Masterwork is the insanely large and diverse feature set.  If that can't stay for the newest version that's unfortunate, but it is a huge part of the draw when it comes to the mod itself.

Tweaking existing content to fit a new version seems like it would be a good idea though.  Some stuff is unnecessary cruft.  Like the various guilds/castes and their requirements.  Humans excepted, they obfuscate the process of getting information out of the game and require a heavier reliance on out of game utilities like DFTherapist to organize your fort.  For humans it's understandable since it's a part of their core mechanics.  For the others it can become a headache to try to track on larger forts.  Especially if you have a large migrant influx with each immigration.

However, removing the crazier stuff like bi-frost and magic from dwarves along with the other races is a bit unnecessary.  Primarily because things like that simply give you different ways to play are by no means mandatory.  More options are never a bad thing.  Especially when it comes to mods.

That is all subjective. Unnecessary = Guilds/castes? While at the same time saying that magic/crazy stuff should stay?

I could ask 100 people, and would get 100 different answers.

That's true.  I guess my point is more that there's usually a difference in the type of content presented in a mod.

Something like the caste/skill boost system doesn't do anything as dramatic for the player to experience when compared to a dwarven pyromancer lobbing fireballs at invaders or accidentally breathing dragonfire into the local booze storage cellar while throwing a tantrum.  One thing changes the rate of progression via increasing the speed of skill gains.  The other creates a tangible and immediately visible feature not present in the base game that allows for all sorts of new strategies and randomized events.

If the intent is to streamline the experience by reducing cruft then stuff like the guilds are probably a better candidate to go than the latter.  Content like the magic system creates new opportunities and styles of play, while the caste system really doesn't do that much except add a bit more complication on to the game and increase the skill progression rate of your characters.

This is just my opinion obviously, but I figured I should clarify on what I meant.  The sheer expansive feature set is what made this mod a must have for me. 


Plus, y'know, it's the only mod that has crazy stuff like the Warlock race.   

[Nevets_]

Maybe the solution here is to decide on a core set of features for dwarves and implement those.  Then as other races are implemented include an option that crosses over features from the new race to dwarves.  So when Warlocks come out you get the option of turning on Dwarven Magic, when Humans come out you get the option of turning on Dwarven Guilds, etc.  It seems like many of the features use similar or renamed workshops/reactions, so I figure that magic for Dwarves wouldn't be much extra work if magic for Warlocks had already been done.