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[Muz]

So I'm building an a kind of grocery store aggregator. You put the stuff you want in a grocery list. Then the app takes your list and compares it to the prices in nearby stores and compares availability. Sometimes things like loss leader pricing or coupons actually make you lose money, so the app aggregates the prices after these 'discounts'.

The basic problem was that we wanted to make something like cheesecake, but sometimes some stores might not stock cream cheese. Or hypermarts charge double the prices you can get at a bakery store. Or you spend like half an hour looking for parking, which is not worth the $0.20 savings.

It's kind of an epic project because of the data entry. We've got some interested investors lining up, but they want the idea validated first.

We're focusing on Malaysia for this year. We're thinking about expanding into markets like USA or Indonesia. But heard you guys do grocery shopping differently there. Like in Malaysia, coupons are almost never used for groceries, but seems to be a common thing in the US. Or maybe you guys already buy all this stuff online.

In Malaysia, supermarkets charge much higher than your regular mom and pop stores because you don't have to waste time searching for certain brands. But heard that in the US, the supermarkets are much cheaper because of economy of scale.

We've got a survey up here if anyone's interested: http://goo.gl/oyVcfm

[Reelya]

In Australia too, supermarkets are where you go for the budget stuff, they even have their own in-house budget range of all the basics. No "mom and pop" store can compete with their prices, so they compete on location convenience instead: the "corner store" in a largely residential zone.

[Levi]

I'm kinda lazy and don't like making more than one trip, so I usually just go to the cheaper of the two nearby grocery stores.  (Alfies No Frills)  Where I live the corner stores tend to be more expensive.

[Orb]

I live in a more rural area in America. They way it works around here usually is you go to the local corner store to pick up something small, like maybe something nice for a special dinner (alcohol is often bought at corner stores). But stocking up for a few weeks/month (soups, cereals) you go to the supermarket, since everything is there and is almost always cheaper.

[Frumple]

But heard that in the US, the supermarkets are much cheaper because of economy of scale.

Oh, it's not just economy of scale. Several of the larger chains -- Walmart's infamous for it, ferex -- are known for willfully running at a loss (either store wide, or on specific lower priced stuff like food -- the loss leader bit you mentioned) for a year or more after opening specifically to drive down prices in the local area and put smaller stores out of business/make it so they can't be competitive. They manage this by, well, putting competition out of business (/marginalizing them as an alternative) in other areas and using profit from those places to suck up the minor loss they incur wrecking the market in the local one. It's predatory as fuck, but it also, quite unfortunately, does tend to give them the best prices and often by a pretty significant margin -- which is a tremendous advantage in lower income areas where customers might not actually have a notable choice in the matter.

Anyway, filled out th'survey for yeh. Hope it helps, ha. I've long kinda' idly considered some kind of website that does exactly what you're trying to do, so best of luck getting your app off the ground and spread around. Something like what you're doing would be a tremendous aid to low income families that can get access to it.

Incidentally, if you and the folks you're working with get the chance and are allowed, definitely make sure there's a non-handheld option of some sort -- something folks can use off a library computer. Like I said, something like what you're working on would be an absolutely incredible budgetary aid for low income families and individuals for whom groceries and whatnot are a significant portion of their budget, and they often don't have the resources to have and maintain an android or whatev'.

[Flying Dice]

Filled it out. But yes, Frumple hit several nails on the head, particularly in regard to your target audience.

[Reelya]

The problem with Walmart's low prices - they're great for anyone on a set income (welfare, pension etc), but for people in these small towns who have to work - well Walmart cuts a chunk out of the local economy since unlike mom & pop operations they don't spend their profits inside the community. So they're really cheap, but they suck cash flow out of the local economy too.

[LordBucket]

How do you guys buy groceries?

Orange County, Ca, USA:

There are three grocery stores within 5 minutes drive of my house. I go maybe 2-3 times per week and never leave with more at a time than I can carry in one trip to/from the car. Since one of those stores sits between the freeway off-ramp and my house, it's easy to stop by whenever I want, coming or going. No need to make a special trip, no need to push a full-sized cart around. Simply walk in, pick up a hand basket, spend maybe 5 minutes getting what I want, leave. I use automatic checkout probably 80% of the time. I don't use coupons or make lists. I generally know what I want going in, and if for some reason the price of something is more than I feel like paying or something is out of stock, I can simply pass on it and pick it up next time from another store.

sometimes some stores might not stock cream cheese.

Irrelevant to me, because grocery stores are only slightly less common than gas stations here. There are a few items that I know if I want them, to go to a different store instead of the one 1000 feet away from the freeway, but going to that other store only adds about 2 minutes each way to my transit time.

Or hypermarts charge double the prices you can get at a bakery store.

Every grocery store in my area has a dedicated bakery inside the store. If you know their schedule you can walk in and get fresh bread right as they pull it out of the oven. It's cheaper than the mass produced shipped stuff full of preservatives. They take custom orders if you want a cake with specific icing designs. Also, never used it myself but I think at least one of them has a cake printer so you can text them images from your phone and they'll print that image on your cake. Also, two deli area is standard: both a "cooked food" area where they make sandwiches, pasta, and party platters and things that you can buy by the pound, cheese freshly sliced off the roll while you watch as well as a butcher where you can tell them what you want and watch as they chop the meat.

These are large chain stores. Albertson's, Ralph's, Pavillions etc.

Or you spend like half an hour looking for parking, which is not worth the $0.20 savings.

This problem doesn't exist in my area. Here are a couple local grocery stores as shown in google earth:



As you can see the parking lots are bigger than the stores themselves, and half the spaces are routinely available. It's not more than a couple hundred feet from an available parking space to the front door.

In Malaysia, supermarkets charge much higher than your regular mom and pop stores because you don't have to waste time searching for certain brands. But heard that in the US, the supermarkets are much cheaper because of economy of scale.

In my area the mom and pop stores charge more than the chains. People go to mom and pop's mostly for the experience, and for the novelty of being able to say that they do so. We do have farmer's markets, for example, where growers will set up tents and sell what they personally produce, but very few people go to them, and I only even know they exist because my grandmother routinely vends at one. Though if you want fresh produce, this is the way to go, since it's possible to get vegetables and things literally hours after they've been picked.

[i2amroy]

The problem with Walmart's low prices - they're great for anyone on a set income (welfare, pension etc), but for people in these small towns who have to work - well Walmart cuts a chunk out of the local economy since unlike mom & pop operations they don't spend their profits inside the community. So they're really cheap, but they suck cash flow out of the local economy too.

Keep in mind they do pay some of it back through their workforce, for example in the town where I grew up Walmart and Home Depot were some of the biggest part of the town's income. Similarly mom & pop stores leak income just as well, since they have to purchase their goods from somewhere, which certainly isn't going to be local unless you happen to live in a farming community (around here you could probably buy more locally grown marijuana than anything you eat on a regular basis). I'm not disagreeing with you on the leaking aspect, I'd just be interested to see how it compares to smaller stores in the amount that goes out vs the amount that comes in.

[smeeprocket]

The problem with Walmart's low prices - they're great for anyone on a set income (welfare, pension etc), but for people in these small towns who have to work - well Walmart cuts a chunk out of the local economy since unlike mom & pop operations they don't spend their profits inside the community. So they're really cheap, but they suck cash flow out of the local economy too.

Keep in mind they do pay some of it back through their workforce, for example in the town where I grew up Walmart and Home Depot were some of the biggest part of the town's income. Similarly mom & pop stores leak income just as well, since they have to purchase their goods from somewhere, which certainly isn't going to be local unless you happen to live in a farming community (around here you could probably buy more locally grown marijuana than anything you eat on a regular basis). I'm not disagreeing with you on the leaking aspect, I'd just be interested to see how it compares to smaller stores in the amount that goes out vs the amount that comes in.

no they don't. Using local businesses gives more money back to the local economy and we all know how well walmart et al treats their workers. They throw them onto govt social programs so they don't have to pay them.

Wal Mart and other stores like it are decidedly detrimental to a local area's economy. The bulk of the money goes back to the business itself, which isn't in the local area, and lines the pockets of rich people, who honestly won't benefit the are even if they live there.

So you might get a net gain in jobs, but those jobs will not treat workers in a way that makes them able to survive or feel human, and the money will benefit the local economy much much less.

What I'm saying is, if you can, buy local.

[Muz]

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Very enlightening... especially Frumple and LordBucket. Would've helped if you guys entered city in the survey, so we could see issues from people in rural, local, etc.

In Malaysia, it's a serious issue. About 50% spend half a day buying groceries and almost everyone spends a significant amount of money. Everyone except students spends over $100 apparently, and that's 10%-20% of income for some people. Urban areas usually have bloody expensive parking because the land is at a premium, so people don't want to spend a lot of time there and parking is difficult.

Also interestingly in Malaysia and Indonesia, poor people generally have a Samsung Galaxy level phone or Xiaomi. Poor people can't afford entertainment like TV so they use smartphones for internet access, info, chat, angry birds. IIRC Indonesian poor adopted Android faster than the British. Places like Africa skipped buying desktop altogether.

Here the supermarkets have very high markups. They buy something for $1 and sell it at $2, and sell the point that they're a one stop shop where people don't have to think to purchase. And then they sell shelf space on top of that.

[Frumple]

Oh, there's pretty high markup in the states, too, it's just kinda' universal. With rural areas, they often have to pay more because they stuff they offer costs the local business more to get them (and they usually don't have the economic weight to put the screws to transport et al services, which the larger chains can and do), and still have to have some degree of markup to keep things running/make a profit.

S'like... as a simple example, there's what I'd classify as a mild luxury food I'm fond of -- a particular brand of microwavable chow mein that sells for about 20 cent to the ounce at its cheapest -- that costs upwards to 25 cent more (~.87 vs ~1.15 at its worst) per container in the local stores than it does at the walmart a dozen and bit miles away.

This is only slightly excessive beyond the norm, and there's very few goods you'll find at an equal price under normal circumstances, from what I've seen. Transit costs are also a pretty big issue, as local/rural gas stations are usually significantly more expensive than more urban ones -- we're talking 20-30 cent/gallon price differences between stations ~twenty minutes apart...

As for the city thing, m'not personally comfortable giving out specific information like that, heh -- force of habit as much as anything. If it helps any to get the info from here, though, I'm in a rural town with a population of about 500, iirc -- the nearest thing one might call a city is about an hour's drive away, though there's a walmart and a harvey's (think mildly smaller win-dixie, which is apt considering the latter recently-ish bought 'em) amount twenty minutes out.

[Orange Wizard]

I usually drive half an hour into town to pick up groceries. Supermarkets are the place to go - "convenience" and speciality stores will charge through the nose for functionally identical products. There are closer shops (ten-ish minutes away) but I usually have some reason I need to go into town for anyway.
Online shopping would be ideal, but no-one delivers out where I live.

[i2amroy]

Wal Mart and other stores like it are decidedly detrimental to a local area's economy. The bulk of the money goes back to the business itself, which isn't in the local area, and lines the pockets of rich people, who honestly won't benefit the are even if they live there.

What I'm saying is, if you can, buy local.

I live in the middle of a rather large desert here in the AZ. Other then some cattle farms in nearby cities (nearby in the sense of a couple hours drive away, certainly not immediately local), there is virtually no food production in the nearby areas, it's just too dry. Similarly we have remarkably little in way of end product production here as well, as pretty much all of it is raw materials/industrial stuff, nothing that you would buy as an end consumer. In situations like that where there isn't anything really produced "locally" I'm saying that I wouldn't be surprised if mom & pop stores functioned virtually identical to supermarkets in terms of economics (since they have to purchase everything from elsewhere, same as the supermarket).

Now I'm not saying that Walmart and other superstores win out in terms of worker treatment, etc., I'm just talking purely about the economic effects. It's just that in places where the only things we actually produce "local" are gravel, machine shop parts, and lollipops I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't going to be that much of a difference economically between little stores and big ones as long as there is at least some competition to prevent monopolies (which is usually provided directly between superstores in my city, such as Bashas, Walmart, and Safeway; as opposed to between superstores and mom & pop deals).

(This of course would be definitely different in places that actually produced end user goods like food in the nearby area, then you would definitely want to buy local from farmer's markets, etc.)

[guessingo]

Cnn had something on the site about selling used trader joes food. Totally grossed me out.