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Author Topic: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.  (Read 1639 times)

RoanHighlandsMan

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Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« on: January 04, 2015, 02:17:39 pm »

If a pair of dwarves can train for one year with a wooden spear and shield and become Legendary Fighters/Speardwarves/Shield/Dodge, then enemy armies should arrive with more than a dozen Competent Swordsmen with copper helms & breastplates and silver short swords.

Enemy ambushes (and starvation), the thing that killed me most when I started playing years ago, have gradually been less and less of a threat. It would be nice to see a siege and think, "Oh, fuck! Lock the gates, get the archers to the towers" rather than "Eh, I'll send my Spear Commander and see how quickly she can kill them all."
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Dyret

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 02:27:41 pm »

Enemy strength is quite reasonable... training needs to be dialed back a few notches.
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Deboche

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 03:45:30 pm »

This is planned. You'll have stronger and smarter enemies that will storm your fortress in different ways if their previous attempts fail. They will even dig into your fortress from underground.

It wouldn't make sense to just make enemies stronger now, perhaps when the military is better. When you have tactics, better control over your dwarves, no bugs and so on.
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Witty

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 04:30:40 pm »

While it should come gradually, I do agree. Civs need to be smarter about determining what material is better for weapons and armor as well. IE no more silver edged weapons. Armor coverage is another issue that should at least be looked at.

I do agree with dialing back training. Becoming a legendary soldier should take a few years of intense combat, not half a year of sparring. Even so, invader skills are pretty pathetic by any standard. Throw a few proficient or talented troops in the mix. It shouldn't be a sharp divide between adequate/competent to master. 
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 04:34:16 pm »

I don't like the idea of them wrecking my perfect map with digging.
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Witty

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 04:35:33 pm »

I don't like the idea of them wrecking my perfect map with digging.
Toady has already said that when diggers come, they'll be optional.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 04:37:00 pm »

Oh. Good.
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Sergarr

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2015, 06:16:10 pm »

One can also imagine a way where the "digging" part is abstracted, so that instead of a tunnel, you have two exits that teleport people between each other.
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Ngosp Umbabok

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 12:36:08 pm »

In addition to digging there is plans for invaders using ladders and similar equipment.

But yeah there could definitely be things done to make invaders more of a threat, one cool thing would be to have the highly trained ones fight closely, together. Like if a squad of elite enemies came at you they would stick side-by-side so two people could attack the same dwarf or they would try to surround them to strike from the back.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 12:54:29 pm »

A game of numbers for sieges would be interesting. Instead of a rabble of goblins charging at your fort, one or two squads supported by a few trolls could charge in, spread put and searching for traps. If they manage to get in without facing traps, another squad or two should be sent, supported by more animals. Then a few with ladders will climb over any non-roofed walls, any on flying mounts going in as well. The main force would go in at a slower pace, putting weaker goblins up front. Once they get inside, they could break formation and just begin a slaughter. This would most likely require larger numbers in sieges, maybe a set minimum.

More armour usage would be good. Not full plate, but maybe a mail shirt, a helmet and shield, a weapon, then leather or bone filling out the rest. Full armour usage for stronger soldiers, and maybe mounted ones.
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Ngosp Umbabok

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 01:06:05 pm »

yes, it would be cool if invaders could have specific objectives during an invasion such as differant groups trying to take out wall archers, destroying traps, setting up choke-points, posting in front of entrances to your fort with ranged weapons etc.
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Deboche

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2015, 01:45:42 pm »

I doubt there'd be ballistas and catapults in the game now if they weren't meant to have actual siege capabilities in the future. I wonder how Toady will manage the fact that siege equipment will be placed quite some distance from your walls.
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Ngosp Umbabok

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2015, 01:52:20 pm »

I doubt there'd be ballistas and catapults in the game now if they weren't meant to have actual siege capabilities in the future. I wonder how Toady will manage the fact that siege equipment will be placed quite some distance from your walls.

Its not that complicated. Enemy siege equipment could just be given the same range as your siege equipment and if the map edge was within that distance they could just stay by the edge and shoot it from there. Also stuff like siege towers, battering rams and ladders are included in siege equipment, those would involve invaders pushing them up to walls and doors
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Gargomaxthalus

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2015, 02:11:14 pm »

A nice way to get a bit of extra difficulty now would be to create a custom enemy or to get the raws for one from it's creator i.e.The Spawn of Holistic or the Voidspawn.
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Deboche

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Re: Enemy civs should have better soldiers.
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2015, 02:17:13 pm »

Its not that complicated. Enemy siege equipment could just be given the same range as your siege equipment and if the map edge was within that distance they could just stay by the edge and shoot it from there. Also stuff like siege towers, battering rams and ladders are included in siege equipment, those would involve invaders pushing them up to walls and doors
I think something will have to be done about the way goblins just show up at your doorstep. It doesn't make sense and will make even less when there are hamlets surrounding your fortress.

Also, you can use all the space in your area and just leave 5 squares where you can't build anything. It wouldn't make much sense for a ballista or a catapult to operate on just those 5 squares.
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