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[catten]

I've been modding in use of borax as a special flux (for working with gold alloys, among other things), and have run into a strange problem: now that I actually care about its existence, I've never found an embark that actually has borax deposits, nor any parent civ that has access to it. While it's possible my changes to raws broke something, I don't think that's the problem: I didn't modify the raws for borax stone, and if I drop a borax stone into a fort using dfhack, the dorfs can process it to borax flux in a kiln, as desired.

So... before worrying further about my raws, I'd like to ask: has anyone else ever seen borax in an embark?

[StagnantSoul]

It's found in huge veins in rock salt and small veins in gypsum. Basically, it's only available in sedimentary layers.

[catten]

It's found in huge veins in rock salt and small veins in gypsum. Basically, it's only available in sedimentary layers.

Understood. Clusters, actually. It's easy to find sites with rock salt, and I've seen a few with gypsum, but they never seem to have borax. Also, very odd that every parent civ seems to have access to rock salt and gypsum but not borax... that's what confuses me.

Has anyone else ever seen borax in an embark?

edit: BTW, you didn't actually answer my question...

[StagnantSoul]

I have quite a bit of borax. I just check, 119 boulders.

[catten]

I have quite a bit of borax. I just check, 119 boulders.

OK, thanks. So either I messed up my world raws in some way that prevents borax from showing up, or I've just been really unlucky so far.

[Dirst]

I have quite a bit of borax. I just check, 119 boulders.

OK, thanks. So either I messed up my world raws in some way that prevents borax from showing up, or I've just been really unlucky so far.

If you just want to test it, you can make it into a sedimentary layer stone of something.

One of my back-burner projects is to extend embark-tools to pinpoint arbitrary minerals rather than just "sand".  A less-convenient Lua-based solution is here.  Just plunk it in your /scripts folder and use lookfor BORAX

[Redzephyr01]

At first I read the title as "Why no Lorax?" and thought this would be a Dr. Seuss mod. I am very disappointed.

[StagnantSoul]

So one day I could punch in and ask for an embark including a rare gem, and start a gemhunt in that embark, instead of praying to Armok before each embark that I'd have one on the map?

[catten]

One of my back-burner projects is to extend embark-tools to pinpoint arbitrary minerals rather than just "sand".  A less-convenient Lua-based solution is here.  Just plunk it in your /scripts folder and use lookfor BORAX

That script doesn't really work, it seems to only show what is in the currently selected embark. However, it (and dfhack's prospect.cpp) gave enough bread crumbs to work out the following:

Spoiler: count-veins.lua (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

local args = {...}

-- from inclusion_type.h
local inclusion_types = {[0]='layers', 'veins', 'large clusters', 'small clusters', 'single units'}

function do_one(vein_mat_name)
   local idx = nil
   for i,v in ipairs(df.global.world.raws.inorganics) do
      if v.id == vein_mat_name then
         idx = i
      end
   end
   print(vein_mat_name .. ' has raw index ' .. idx)

   local counts = {[0]=0, 0,0,0,0}
   for i,geo in ipairs(df.global.world.world_data.geo_biomes) do
      for j,layer in ipairs(geo.layers) do
         if idx == layer.mat_index then
            counts[0] = counts[0] + 1
         end
         for k,mat in ipairs(layer.vein_mat) do
            if mat == idx then
               counts[layer.vein_type[k]] = counts[layer.vein_type[k]] + 1
            end
         end
      end
   end

   print('Incidence of ' .. vein_mat_name .. ' worldwide:')
   for i,count in pairs(counts) do
      if count > 0 then
         print('\t' .. count .. ' ' .. inclusion_types[i])
      end
   end
end

for i,vein_mat_name in ipairs(args) do
   do_one(vein_mat_name)
end


Code: [Select]

[lua]# dfhack.run_script('devel/count-veins', 'BORAX')
Incidence of BORAX worldwide:
        3 small clusters

So that explains it... a true needle in the haystack. Checking six other worlds shows a similar story, 2-4 small clusters worldwide and that's it. I've yet to see a large cluster. Checking other vein types (iron ores, sphalerite, etc.) gives very believable numbers, so I think the script is working correctly.

Whether I somehow broke something, who knows, but borax seems to be incredibly rare in my df multiverse.

Edit: updated script to count layer stone also.

[catten]

So one day I could punch in and ask for an embark including a rare gem, and start a gemhunt in that embark, instead of praying to Armok before each embark that I'd have one on the map?

I suppose you could start from the script I posted earlier, but it doesn't tell you *where* the minerals are. It just says how many veins/clusters exist worldwide.

[Dirst]

One of my back-burner projects is to extend embark-tools to pinpoint arbitrary minerals rather than just "sand".  A less-convenient Lua-based solution is here.  Just plunk it in your /scripts folder and use lookfor BORAX

That script doesn't really work, it seems to only show what is in the currently selected embark. However, it (and dfhack's prospect.cpp) gave enough bread crumbs to work out the following:

Spoiler: count-veins.lua (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

local args = {...}

-- from inclusion_type.h
local inclusion_types = {"veins", "large clusters", 'small clusters', 'single units'}

function do_one(vein_mat_name)
   local idx = nil
   for i,v in ipairs(df.global.world.raws.inorganics) do
      if v.id == vein_mat_name then
         idx = i
      end
   end

   local counts = {[0]=0, 0,0,0,0}
   for i,geo in ipairs(df.global.world.world_data.geo_biomes) do
      for j,layer in ipairs(geo.layers) do
         for k,mat in ipairs(layer.vein_mat) do
            if mat == idx then
               counts[layer.vein_type[k]] = counts[layer.vein_type[k]] + 1
            end
         end
      end
   end

   print('Incidence of ' .. vein_mat_name .. ' worldwide:')
   for i,count in ipairs(counts) do
      if count > 0 then
         print("\t" .. count .. ' ' .. inclusion_types[i])
      end
   end
end

for i,vein_mat_name in ipairs(args) do
   do_one(vein_mat_name)
end


Code: [Select]

[lua]# dfhack.run_script('devel/count-veins', 'BORAX')
Incidence of BORAX worldwide:
        3 small clusters

So that explains it... a true needle in the haystack. Checking six other worlds shows a similar story, 2-4 small clusters worldwide and that's it. I've yet to see a large cluster. Checking other vein types (iron ores, sphalerite, etc.) gives very believable numbers, so I think the script is working correctly.

Whether I somehow broke something, who knows, but borax seems to be incredibly rare in my df multiverse.

Sorry that I wasn clear, the lookfor script is like prospect, in that it checks an embark area for you (pre-embark on the world map is more useful).  The worldwide script seems better suited to your purposes.

[Slidey]

At first I read the title as "Why no Lorax?" and thought this would be a Dr. Seuss mod. I am very disappointed.

I have never seen a Lorax in the game nor Borax, *Sigh* Horton hears a whorox and boorax.

[tussock]

catten, I can't help but notice you've got "double quotes" around large clusters and 'single quotes' around small clusters when you only found small clusters. Can I suggest, well, the obvious.

[catten]

catten, I can't help but notice you've got "double quotes" around large clusters and 'single quotes' around small clusters when you only found small clusters. Can I suggest, well, the obvious.

The script has no trouble finding large clusters of magnetite (62) and sylvite (3) in the world I'm playing right now.

Single and double quotes are equivalent in most scripting languages, including Lua. Also, the material types are actually bare integers, and the search looks directly at those. That table of strings is just used to make the results human-readable after everything has been counted up.

Meanwhile, I edited the script to all single quotes. Too much C++ lately.

[Dirst]

Maybe you broke rock salt somehow?  Use the same script and see how often that is showing up (if it will even list layers).