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[Putnam]

I'm sorry, are you rationalizing that players just haven't discovered all the content yet?

That's actually unbelievably idiotic. You're doing exactly what you're denying.

How do you play DF and not realize how procedural generation works?

I know enough about DF to elaborate on what Toady says about the game. I almost definitely know more about procedural generation than you do.

If over 1,000,000 people have been playing a game for even one hour each and none have seen a high-level feature such as "fleets of more than 10 ships", that feature is almost definitely not in the game.

[Ghills]

I do. You don't. I'm not participating in this any longer.
Because seriously. I don't deny that it's possible to enjoy the game, but it's absolute idiocy to somehow rationalize that the content is there but somehow not a single person has seen this supposed "feature"?

It's totally possible, for 2 reasons:

1) The devs aren't ensuring it shows up by hand. That's the whole issue with procedural generation, the strength and the pitfall. If you understood procedural generation, you would understand this.

2) People miss things in smaller games all the time, even when those games are hand-designed levels. A procedural generation game made of stupidly large amounts of territory and where it's very possible things progress without the player around...yeah, there's a ton of stuff players are going to miss.  It's a bad design decision on a lot of levels, but it is what was promised.  People simply seem to not understand that. I happen not to mind the downsides so I like the game, though I don't blame people who dislike it.  But don't try to pretend I'm stupid or deluded for liking something you dislike.

[Ghills]

I'm sorry, are you rationalizing that players just haven't discovered all the content yet?

That's actually unbelievably idiotic. You're doing exactly what you're denying.

How do you play DF and not realize how procedural generation works?

I know enough about DF to elaborate on what Toady says about the game. I almost definitely know more about procedural generation than you do.

If over 1,000,000 people have been playing a game for even one hour each and none have seen a high-level feature such as "fleets of more than 10 ships", that feature is almost definitely not in the game.

There's a lot of problems with that statement - are all those players uploading their encounters or publicizing what they see? Is that enough time to survey all the systems?  What about time dependent events, are fleets only encountered after a certain playtime (either by accident or design)?  What about the issue of things changing as players get near the core?  Your experimental design is bad, redesign and resubmit.

It's perfectly possible that there is a bug preventing faction fleets, or that the devs simply didn't get it in.  But it's equally possible that it's a rare enough event that players haven't seen it yet. 

That's the problem with procedural generation.  It gets too complex to promise progression and other gamey features very, very quickly unless the dev has a lot of experience finetuning things and limits how the player experience can go.  NMS devs didn't get the finetuning correct, which is good for me and bad for a lot of people.

[Sirus]

Why not rename the refund thread into "No Man's Sky - 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 false promises to disprove"

Better idea: rename this thread "No Man's Sky - 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 posts of salt"

[umiman]

This is the best thread.

[forsaken1111]

It's perfectly possible that there is a bug preventing faction fleets, or that the devs simply didn't get it in.  But it's equally possible that it's a rare enough event that players haven't seen it yet. 
.

if these features are in but blocked by a bug, then they are not actually available. If they are in but so rare that not one person has seen them in a week then they are effectively nonexistent. Besides which there is no UI section for the promised faction interaction so how exactly would that work anyway?

[Chiefwaffles]

WELL AT SOME POINT THE PROCEDURAL GENERATION IS BOUND TO MAKE A FULLY SELF-AWARE SENTIENT AI!

WE JUST HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET! NMS HAS SENTIENT AIS CONFIRMED!!

[Micro102]

Ok, on the topic of features just not having been found yet. If they are so rare that millions of people have not been able to find them than they are effectively not part of the game. It's like saying "Minecraft will be nothing but flat land until you travel in one direction for 1000 hours".

[Skynet]

if these features are in but blocked by a bug, then they are not actually available. If they are in but so rare that not one person has seen them in a week then they are effectively nonexistent.

Exactly. If the player doesn't see the content, it doesn't exist. The developers therefore need to think more carefully about how to make sure the player does see the content...possibly by reducing the number of planets generated from 18 quadrillion to maybe, 10,000? 100? Maybe the developers could even go further, generating thousands of planets and then hand-selecting the best and most varied planets to include in the game itself, while throwing away all the "mediocre" or "bad" planets. Etc., etc.

Procedural generation is just a tool, so you have to use it carefully and judiciously. If there is a problem caused by your use of the tool, then be prepared to use the tool differently.
---
Someone posted in the NeoGAF thread for this game that you can see the graves of other players. The report claimed that you don't know whose grave it is...just that somebody died. That's probably the closest you're going to get to player "interaction".

A follow-up Google search claims that only one grave per player is active at any given time though, so stumbling upon another player's grave might be a very rare event, which is probably why it hasn't been reported until now.

[Ghills]

if these features are in but blocked by a bug, then they are not actually available. If they are in but so rare that not one person has seen them in a week then they are effectively nonexistent.

Exactly. If the player doesn't see the content, it doesn't exist. The developers therefore need to think more carefully about how to make sure the player does see the content...possibly by reducing the number of planets generated from 18 quadrillion to maybe, 10,000? 100? Maybe the developers could even go further, generating thousands of planets and then hand-selecting the best and most varied planets to include in the game itself, while throwing away all the "mediocre" or "bad" planets. Etc., etc.
---
Someone posted in the NeoGAF thread that you can see the graves of other players. The report claimed that you don't know whose grave it is...just that somebody died. That's probably the closest you're going to get to player "interaction".

A follow-up Google search claims that only one grave per player is active at any given time though, so stumbling upon another player's grave either is a very rare event, which is probably why it hasn't been reported until now.

Yes, with the caveat that there are plenty of things in games which many players never see but are still in the game.

NMS devs made design choices which I quite like, but many other players are not used to and don't like.  It's a polarizing game.

There's nothing wrong with either opinion, and implying that people are deluded because they like the game is insulting and foolish. 

[forsaken1111]

I think that implication was made based on qualities exhibited other than whether you like the game but that is irrelevant. The game was advertised as containing these features. It clearly does not contain them in any way in which we can experience them. I am glad that you are enjoying the game. I did not, because the game I was sold was not the game they advertised.

[Micro102]

Is anyone saying people who like the game are deluded? It looks like a fun game, I would spend hours playing it. But is it worth the price? No. Is it what we were told what it was?
No x18,446,744,073,709,551,616. Does it have bugs? Yes. Is it one of the biggest disappointments in the gaming industry? Most likely.

I wouldn't call people who enjoy the game deluded, I would call people who say that the game was honestly portrayed deluded.

[Chiefwaffles]

"[Features] players are not used to"

This is a pretty pretentious statement. I may be reading a bit much into it, but at this moment you're basically just implying that others simply aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate NMS.

The above is an exaggeration, but my point remains. It's possible to not like a game because you don't like it and never would. It's possible to not like a game because it's objectively bad. It's possible to like a game even though it's objectively bad.

I'm sure there's at least one person out there who enjoys playing Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

[Ghills]

I think that implication was made based on qualities exhibited other than whether you like the game but that is irrelevant. The game was advertised as containing these features. It clearly does not contain them in any way in which we can experience them. I am glad that you are enjoying the game. I did not, because the game I was sold was not the game they advertised.

The post I first responded to was "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias : "I paid for this 60$, I wouldn't pay that much for a lemon game, therefore it's good" , which is absolutely saying that players who like NMS are deluded suckers.

I don't think the advertising promised a whole lot that wasn't delivered, particularly because the large game space and other design decisions mean it's difficult to determine whether something is in or not. But that's clearly YMMV depending on what ads we each saw and how much we like the features we have encountered.  It's completely fair to say that when something is very rare it may as well not exist, and that can be extremely frustrating.

[Ghills]

"[Features] players are not used to"

This is a pretty pretentious statement. I may be reading a bit much into it, but at this moment you're basically just implying that others simply aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate NMS.

The above is an exaggeration, but my point remains. It's possible to not like a game because you don't like it and never would. It's possible to not like a game because it's objectively bad. It's possible to like a game even though it's objectively bad.

I'm sure there's at least one person out there who enjoys playing Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

That's not what I meant at all. I meant exactly what I said - NMS relies on things that are uncommon and disliked by a significant fraction of gamers.  There's no value judgement there any more than saying that some people like blue more than red, or white over wheat, or whatever other preference. 

I'm not the arbiter of gaming taste, or any other kind of taste.  I just don't want to be mocked for liking something others dislike.