Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

Hello games aren't the ones who do decide about the refund. Steam is. And they know it's a "shitty" release, where people will get angry if they can't refund.

I am happy though that after watching Angry Joe's review of it... that he isn't the only one who had a similar experience to mine

Being filled with hope thinking that there might be a good game here... until quite a few hours into the game where your hit with the realization that... nope...

[Retropunch]

I wouldn't even call it mislead, there were just outright lies.

Rather than having people on the Internet get into a boring flame war ("It's a lie!", "No it's not!"), I want the courts involved in the process...to decide what are and are not material statements, and exactly how much damage did Sean's quotes cause to the plaintiffs (if it actually caused damage). The problem seems to be that lawsuits are expensive and can take a lot of effort for very little benefit. And there's no guarantee that the plaintiffs would have a "slam-dunk case" here.

I don't know if a court can charge someone with lying about a game (maybe false advertising but that sounds like there are technicalities for that specific charge), but you don't need a court to look at the ridiculously long list of things that Sean directly said were going to be in it, and weren't, to realize that he was just lying. The only other possible argument would be that he said what he wanted to game to be, but there is still a difference between "Yes you will be able to do that in the game" and "That's what we are aiming for".

According to this bloke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1oFNUZ-P0

It's illegal in the UK, where Hello Games is.

I'm not a lawyer so... 

If you watch back over the videos (it's actually quite interesting to do so) you can hear that he never makes any actual promises about things being in that weren't, other than with multiplayer. Everything else is stated very loosely and without any specifics ("you'll be able to do that kind of thing"), and most of the stuff he's said is broadly included, just in a vastly watered down form.

So the only real concrete claim that he's lied on is multiplayer, and he can just say 'oh it's supposed to be in, but we've been having technical difficulties' and it would be hard to prove otherwise. Yeah, you can point to the lack of models and whatever, but he can say 'well we were going to represent everyone as just a big textbox saying 'playername' and there's not a lot you can do.

Not to say I agree, it's always frustrated me that games are treated as somehow a special type of product. If you bought any other product and it didn't work or kept on messing up you could, and would, return it immediately. Games get treated as though game breaking bugs and unplayability are somehow ok.

[ChairmanPoo]

I wouldn't even call it mislead, there were just outright lies.

Rather than having people on the Internet get into a boring flame war ("It's a lie!", "No it's not!"), I want the courts involved in the process...to decide what are and are not material statements, and exactly how much damage did Sean's quotes cause to the plaintiffs (if it actually caused damage). The problem seems to be that lawsuits are expensive and can take a lot of effort for very little benefit. And there's no guarantee that the plaintiffs would have a "slam-dunk case" here.

I don't know if a court can charge someone with lying about a game (maybe false advertising but that sounds like there are technicalities for that specific charge), but you don't need a court to look at the ridiculously long list of things that Sean directly said were going to be in it, and weren't, to realize that he was just lying. The only other possible argument would be that he said what he wanted to game to be, but there is still a difference between "Yes you will be able to do that in the game" and "That's what we are aiming for".

According to this bloke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1oFNUZ-P0

It's illegal in the UK, where Hello Games is.

I'm not a lawyer so... 

If you watch back over the videos (it's actually quite interesting to do so) you can hear that he never makes any actual promises about things being in that weren't, other than with multiplayer. Everything else is stated very loosely and without any specifics ("you'll be able to do that kind of thing"), and most of the stuff he's said is broadly included, just in a vastly watered down form.

So the only real concrete claim that he's lied on is multiplayer, and he can just say 'oh it's supposed to be in, but we've been having technical difficulties' and it would be hard to prove otherwise. Yeah, you can point to the lack of models and whatever, but he can say 'well we were going to represent everyone as just a big textbox saying 'playername' and there's not a lot you can do.

Not to say I agree, it's always frustrated me that games are treated as somehow a special type of product. If you bought any other product and it didn't work or kept on messing up you could, and would, return it immediately. Games get treated as though game breaking bugs and unplayability are somehow ok.

I don't think that's true. He makes a series of specific claims of how things work in the game which are not actually true. Eg: rotating planets, faction wars, etc...

[Neonivek]

I don't think that's true. He makes a series of specific claims of how things work in the game which are not actually true. Eg: rotating planets, faction wars, etc

Full economy system

Aliens giving you more access to their stuff if they like you.

[Egan_BW]

yeah, just bring on the posts with your experiences, instead of meta complaining , that surely won't bring the discussion anywhere

"'He said, meta complaining.'
He said, meta complaining."
He said, jumping down the rabbit hole.

[Retropunch]

All of those things can be explained away - 'by full economy, I just meant you could buy things!!', 'by faction wars, I just meant it from a story perspective!' - he hasn't gone into anything in enough detail to be pinned down hard (although from what I understand they said that they were taking out rotating planets in the pre-launch notes).

There's also the issue that the universe is massive - if he turned around and said 'somewhere in the NMS universe these things are happening' no one could say he was wrong, without illegally reverse engineering the game (which would make it inadmissible).

I'm not saying it's excusable, I'm just saying that it would be extremely difficult to build any sort of legal case.

[forsaken1111]

I don't really think so. One of the videos showed footage of a war and he's saying the player is on the edge of two faction's space which are at war, and that the player can 'pick a side and join in'. Factions don't even have 'space' as far as I've seen, much less do any kind of warfare. The video showed capital ships jumping in and duking it out, none of which I've seen happen in anyone's videos

[Shadowlord]

Welcome to how I feel on the Starbound thread.
_{Except this is totally justified}

And the Starbound thread is positive now!

[Micro102]

Have the people who are saying that these aren't lies watched basically any video criticizing the game ever? The evidence is damning.

[Putnam]

'by faction wars, I just meant it from a story perspective!'

No, he said outright that you can warp into a system and find two massive fleets (on the order of many dozens of ships instead of a single dozen) battling it out and join one. The game fails to have massive fleets or factions fighting in any way that can really be seen.

This was also 4 months ago IIRC, so the "promises made years ago" reasoning doesn't work.

[LoSboccacc]

Have the people who are saying that these aren't lies watched basically any video criticizing the game ever? The evidence is damning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias : "I paid for this 60$, I wouldn't pay that much for a lemon game, therefore it's good"

[Ghills]

Have the people who are saying that these aren't lies watched basically any video criticizing the game ever? The evidence is damning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias : "I paid for this 60$, I wouldn't pay that much for a lemon game, therefore it's good"

Not really.

I can absolutely see how people could consider this game a lemon.  I don't - I think I got exactly what I was promised and excited for - but I didn't expect things that a lot of other people seem to have read into the dev statements.  I also don't think the current state is perfect.

I'm sure that in some systems, there are huge faction battles and players can warp in and join them. But MOST systems don't have that because the procedural generation wasn't tuned that way.  See also, volcanoes in DF.  The game needs better discoverability options for sure so that players who want that can find them and other more interesting things.   But the whole focus of the game, and what the devs actually focused on in their PR, was the huge number of planets and the exploration, finding rare and interesting things (of which battles were one) amid alien backdrops. 

[Chiefwaffles]

I'm sorry, are you rationalizing that players just haven't discovered all the content yet?

That's actually unbelievably idiotic. You're doing exactly what you're denying.

[Ghills]

I'm sorry, are you rationalizing that players just haven't discovered all the content yet?

That's actually unbelievably idiotic. You're doing exactly what you're denying.

How do you play DF and not realize how procedural generation works?

[Chiefwaffles]

I do. You don't. I'm not participating in this any longer.
Because seriously. I don't deny that it's possible to enjoy the game, but it's absolute idiocy to somehow rationalize that the content is there but somehow not a single person has seen this supposed "feature"?

EDIT: To be clear, by "idiocy" I'm just referring to this specific rationalization. I'm not trying to attack you personally.