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[Urist Tilaturist]

An elf could certainly help to produce wood. The lack of tree felling would also make it fine with his ethics and avoid conflict.

[endlessblaze]

The whips actually make sense at there curent power levels. If leather whips can cut in real life, what do you think SILVER is going to do to you? Or even platnuim, a platnuim whip in real life would probably do some major hurt.

Your all ninjas......

But that reminds me. Over time the ethics of races could change. As it stands the ethics are adopted by other races become part of a civ. if one makes it an over time thing it would be interesting. And what if your dwarfs had some of there ethics change to?

[Urist Tilaturist]

Whips can cut flesh, sure, hence "injuring unarmoured enemies". They can certainly do nasty damage to unarmoured foes, potentially causing death by infected cuts, not to mention the fear factor. But against armour? Not even a scratch. They act as slashing weapons and simply do not have the crushing power to do damage through decent armour, even mail.

[endlessblaze]

But metal is not leather. The thing about useing whips as a wepon is thay have a small contact area and are considered blunt. The leather is minor, metal will kill. It's the weight and force in that tiny area that is killing.that force has to go somewhere and the armor is not handling it well enough. A hit to the head  is going to fracture the skull or kill. That hemet is right aginst the head, it's not going to do much. It will help a little but not much.

[pisskop]

Refugees can report like migrants to either the barracks or the hauling stockpile.

  I like the idea of them showing up, but  more as a substitute for the current migrant system.  The migrants I would like to see 'ordered'.  while that wouldn't rid us of all illegal immigrants ( ) it would make the system more manageable and likely more fun.


 - - -

Also, in what lore do dwarves have a loose enough society to encourage migration?  They are very social, and very set into clans, locations, and history.  they aren't humans, who have a much more loosely based society.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Then that is a flail, not a whip. A metal striking object on a chain is not a whip, it is a flail and does not handle the same way because of its increased mass (the swinger cannot accelerate it as fast or recover the swing as quickly). Yes, being bashed hard on the head with one of those will likely kill, and they have the added bonus of swinging over shields to hit the foe. The problem with flails is the long recovery time between strikes and the slow strike speed. If the first strike does not kill or cripple the target, the striker is in big trouble since even if he manages to prepare a second strike, his opponent could already have struck several times already if he has a more wieldy weapon.

Flails are fine weapons in some cases, but they need to be called flails and not handle the same as whips.

[StagnantSoul]

Flail= a blunt object on the end of a whip.
Metal whip= many small metal chains strung together similar to a rope. That or just a chain.

[Urist Tilaturist]

A metal chain without a heavier object at the end will not have enough smashing force to bust armour. That is why such weapons were not used much, unlike flails, which were. The only way that a weapon of this sort can bust armour is if it is a flail. Saying a normal metal chain can smash through armour at forces that mortal humans or dwarves could possibly achieve is like saying a war hammer with a pin head would be useful. While oversized blunt weapons are bad, undersized ones are bad too.

[Niddhoger]

As far as elves go... I believe Elven "retreats" have "grown" trees in them that they likely get all their "grown" wood from.  This likely has to do with elven priests and not the laypeople.  Think druids shaping a tree limb into the desired shape, then taking that (small) part off.  The amount of useable wood would be slower at first, but more sustainable over time. 

Also, different races have different stat averages.  Dorf's tend to have things like higher creativity than average (lots of creative dorfs, few with negative attribute).  I'd imagine elves might be low on strength, but high on agility.  This would allow you to better specialize labor.  Your ranged squads could be all hippies (high agility).  I believe goblins have decent agility and -very- high memory.. which should make them good herbalists and back up archers.  Goblins DO have a high rate of murder in their civs though... so likely any goblin refugees would just wind up in jail.  Not sure what the stat averages for humans are.

[Pyrite]

Also, in what lore do dwarves have a loose enough society to encourage migration?  They are very social, and very set into clans, locations, and history.  they aren't humans, who have a much more loosely based society.

The way I see it, Dwarves are very opportunistic and entrepreneurial. A dwarf might leave his home to join a fledgeling settlement with the promise of greater status should the settlement succeed. Of course, this should mean that you're getting dwarves who felt that they were at a dead end where they were for some reason or another.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Dwarves accept goblins as their queens, in my experience. They could certainly accept foreign citizens.

[Aslandus]

Would this mean that some refugees are injured or sick when they arrive? I know citizens of former fortresses retain permanent injuries from where they left, but would the migrants from other places also come in with problems? I feel like coming from a war zone would have some effects on the refugees ("Wants to have a stable home environment", "Paranoid after seeing a friend get ambushed", etc)

I do like the idea of having relations with different civilizations divided into categories for things like how receptive you are to migrants and how generous you are to caravans. I feel like it's strange that diplomats from the elves are the only ones who ever make requests (unless you count the "production demands" from the mountainhome, which are really just suggestions)... I apologize if I'm going a little off topic here...

[pisskop]

Dwarves accept goblins as their queens, in my experience. They could certainly accept foreign citizens.

Thats different, and Id ask Toady to change that.

  Thats due to how civilization assimilation and migration works.  I do in fact believe that conquered goblins would be unable to rise to anything more than goblin-site nobility.

[SlyStalker]

Well, I dunno. If there was a war going on in my front garden, I'd sure as hell leg it towards the nearest settlement, even if they were dwarves. Having an option to provide sanctum for a short while (2 seasons - 1 year?) would be fine for me.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Thats different, and Id ask Toady to change that.

  Thats due to how civilization assimilation and migration works.  I do in fact believe that conquered goblins would be unable to rise to anything more than goblin-site nobility.

I think these kinds of incidents make little sense too, but that is how they are now. Toady should make it harder for other species to rule civilisations.

Refugees should arrive with many bad thoughts and possible injuries, bringing diseases (when they are eventually added) and the possibility of turning to crime and causing trouble. On the positive side, they could sometimes have some more useful skills, like legendary armoursmith, or do things that dwarves cannot do, like elves growing wood.