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Author Topic: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use  (Read 8962 times)

vjmdhzgr

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2015, 02:46:06 pm »

What I recommend you do for materials is every year put maximum priority on iron, pig iron, and steel bars with the liaisons. Then, and this is quite an important step, put maximum priority on hematite, limonite, magnetite, bituminous coal, and lignite. Those are the ores for iron and fuel which will allow you to make tons of steel. I did the calculations once and I think in total you should be able to get something like 80 steel bars a year. Ores are cheaper than the bars and you get four times the total metal from them so if you don't have the money but the ores first.
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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2015, 02:51:27 pm »

I've never actually encounter adamantium in game sooooo ya......


I'm still waiting for migrants to use in military. This for is not quite a year old but it's gotten 6 migrants each with a half decent skill so winter will be used to start military equipment production and hopefully next year holds more dorfs. Also most of the migrants are either competent at a craft or have a bit of military training with novice skills so I think a big migrant wave should hold some good recruits
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Splint

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2015, 02:56:22 pm »

Make sure to equip the dwarves with what they know how to use to save a little effort in retraining.

Cryxis, Prince of Doom

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2015, 03:30:19 pm »

Well I've begun production and have my first 'squad' of two dwarves set up with bone helmets leather armor and the commander who has hammer training has a silver hammer while the other has spear training and has a copper spear. Now I need to get a couple shields out and they may start training
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Niddhoger

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2015, 03:36:13 pm »

Eh... you can rely on traps and bridges to protect you at first.  I don't tend to develop my military until I have 30 something dwarves.  Even then I only get a few training.  The trick is to keep your created wealth low (under 100k) to prevent dangerous FB/titan attacks.  Even then you can just seal off your fort until you dig out a proper pit/defense to neutralize them.  I don't tend to make a single full squad until around 50.  I like to get several industries running along with an army of haulers to do the grunt work.  However... it starts to go up drastically from there.  Pretty much all migrants go into military past 50.  Every so often I have to ramp up the food/cloth industries though.  You still wind up with 100+ military dorfs by end game though.  There is only so much work to do and making wealth to buy things is only useful for importing metal really.  Muddied stone for farming.  With enough dorfs and muddied stone you can feed/inebriate/cloth all your dorfs easy enough.  Hunting, breeding, and cage traps supply enough leather to equip your military with quivers and backpacks (waterskins can be glass or metal).  Now, if you are short on wood/metals is the only reason to continue trading.  Even then, you'll eventually equip your whole fort in metal and get all the bins/beds you need.  Importing wood for charcoal is a waste- just use magma smelters.  Thus... most of your dorfs become military squads to fight off large invasions or the HFS... which can actually both be cheesed by other means.  Its mostly a "something to do" thing really.  Forts that survive everyhting thrown at them eventually just die due to boredom (if not FPS)
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Splint

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2015, 03:38:27 pm »

Well I've begun production and have my first 'squad' of two dwarves set up with bone helmets leather armor and the commander who has hammer training has a silver hammer while the other has spear training and has a copper spear. Now I need to get a couple shields out and they may start training

You can start them now if you like. They'll just train weapon, wrestling, dodging, and (sort of train) armor skills without the shield. They might even survive a battle against a  tiny group of enemies if they have enough discipline not to run or become horrified after a couple months of training. Underestimate not the power (though not durability) light infantry can hold in this game.

Niddhoger

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2015, 03:38:49 pm »

Well I've begun production and have my first 'squad' of two dwarves set up with bone helmets leather armor and the commander who has hammer training has a silver hammer while the other has spear training and has a copper spear. Now I need to get a couple shields out and they may start training

Remember, wood shields are just as effective at protecting dorfs as metal ones.  Just churning out a couple wooden ones will immensely improve the lifespan of your dorfs.  Ironically, wooden shields protect against dragonfire (which melts ADAMANTIUM) just as good as every other material.  However, the only material that actually can stand up to dragonfire is actually wood (nethercap). 
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Splint

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2015, 03:41:03 pm »

Well I've begun production and have my first 'squad' of two dwarves set up with bone helmets leather armor and the commander who has hammer training has a silver hammer while the other has spear training and has a copper spear. Now I need to get a couple shields out and they may start training

Remember, wood shields are just as effective at protecting dorfs as metal ones.  Just churning out a couple wooden ones will immensely improve the lifespan of your dorfs.  Ironically, wooden shields protect against dragonfire (which melts ADAMANTIUM) just as good as every other material.  However, the only material that actually can stand up to dragonfire is actually wood (nethercap).

Wood shields are indeed amazing and a much better use of resources. And anything magma-safe can survive dragonfire provided it isn't getting constantly bathed in the stuff. 2 or 3 hits it should be fine. More than that and it starts to wear out/melt into a puddle in my own experience.

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2015, 04:09:10 pm »

Gave them wood shields and copper grieves/gauntlets to add to their armor.
I also struck some gold so I think the surplus silver will just go into making electrum furniture.

I have never built traps, I like the appeal of the dwarves defending themselves with a military, that and I haven't gotten much experience with using a military....
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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2015, 04:19:17 pm »

Trap major choke points wherever possible: Corners, doorways, anywhere wagons aren't going to be that enemies may use as a short cut. A row or two of traps behind the main gate and 3 or 4 near the cornsers of the wall may make all the difference.

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2015, 04:32:03 pm »

I was just going to put my training units outside the only entrance. Figured that would keep the fort safe
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Niddhoger

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2015, 04:42:18 pm »

Gave them wood shields and copper grieves/gauntlets to add to their armor.
I also struck some gold so I think the surplus silver will just go into making electrum furniture.

I have never built traps, I like the appeal of the dwarves defending themselves with a military, that and I haven't gotten much experience with using a military....

Cage traps are a major food sources as well as defense.  I tend to pierce the caverns ASAP then wall them off until I can churn out a trap line.  Then I open it back up and fill my larders with the fruits of the depths! Elk birds, naked mole dogs, cave crocs, crundles... they all seem to throw themselves at your traps and can be quickly trained/butchered for safe food sources.  Anything that that can't be butchered becomes live training for your military.  Take a break from drills and sic your dorfs on a pack of trogs or cave trolls! You can even begin walling off parts of the cavern to create choke points lined with traps.  These will funnel the critters that spawn near by through said traps.  Sometimes I pasture them in the front of my fort as a line of defense.  I don't think any of them (but cave dragons) can be trained for war, but they can still be tamed and put out front of your fort.  Goblins will charge in and be set on by a sea of rutherers, cave crocs, elk birds, and draaltha with the occasional GCS as support.  It is... brutally effective all told. 

Its a bit silly though, in that a mighty bronze colossus that towers over your fortress can be caught and restrained in the same cage that held a small badger the season before.  Once I embarked on a cyclops lair and immediately lured the "current resident" into a simple wooden trap.  I called him Bob and placed him in the middle of my dining hall for years.  When I finally decided to retire the fort I figured I'd let my axelords have fun with him first.  Giant killing machine of rippling muscles and ferocity brought low by a simple wooden cage trap. 

Ofc there are more ingenous and complex traps you can build too.  My favorite is the magma door used to kill building destroyers.  Build a small room and put a magma-safe door on both sides then pour magma in the top.  When the troll (or w/e) goes to gleefully smash the door they wind up unleashing the magma.  Normally they'd run off before getting melted... but since there is a second door behind the magma they automatically start pathing to it after smashing the first.  This obviously causes them to run face first into the !FUN! and go running back to their friends while on fire.  Good times.  Good times.   Its overly complicated and somewhat resource heavy (moving magma is never simple), but I just love the irony of using a building destroyers nature against it.  You could also build a support that holds up a small floor for a similar result.  Troll smashes support and causes cave in of floor (perhaps with worn socks on top of floor for additional falling damage).  There is always the drowning chamber too.  Build a bridge over a pit filled with water or otherwise engineer a room to seal off and flood.  When everyone is dead drain the water and loot their corpses.  A nearby river/lake and an aquifer (as a drain) make this absurdly simple to set up.

As for the other "traps" just avoid the stone-fall ones.  They are absurdly worthless unless you have some seriously heavy stone to use (cinnabar).  Weapon traps only require one weapon (can hold 10 though), but can jam.  The better quality the mechanism the less chance of jamming.  Cage traps will always go off and (ironically) only small vermin can chew through the cages.  Spike traps needs to be manually set off or linked to pressure plates.  All told I tend to skip everything but cage traps and things like drowning chambers. 
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Niddhoger

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2015, 04:47:11 pm »

I was just going to put my training units outside the only entrance. Figured that would keep the fort safe

At the very least put a wall (not a complete one) around them to block arrow fire.  Preferably add a roof to also keep fliers at bay.  The point is you don't want goblin crossbows to start shooting your dorfs until they are already in melee range.  Thus, even a simple straight wall will do wonders for your military at the entrance.  Also make sure the choke point is indeed tight.  Even legendary observers can only spot a DABBLING ambusher 3 tiles away.  yes, yes, its stupid... however if you just station them out front there could be a big enough gap to still let theives and such slink through. 
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Thisfox

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2015, 05:21:43 pm »

Use your silver for decorating weapons and amour, and of course making furniture, and thus improving morale.

Use the copper for actually making the weapons, including the bolts. Unless you want maces, then by all means make silver maces. But generally: The silver is GREAT for things like silver statues, silver armour stands, silver weapon racks and copper helmets menacing with silver spikes. It is not so great for bolts, which work better if they're copper, or, if you can get the ingredients, bronze.

In fact, bronze beats copper, if you can swing it.
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Aslandus

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Re: Dwarven military; what materials are best for what use
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2015, 06:19:31 pm »

I would actually prioritize shields over armor, a shield can be made from wood within a minute of embark while even leather armor takes some industry to make. Don't forget to get a hospital running before your first encounter, unless you want the extra challenge of losing half your soldiers to infections every year...
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