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[wierd]

In the early spring of 2015, UristMcAdventurer was overcome with Wanderlust, and embarked on a dizzying quest in the adventuretron. After 2 days of continuous riding, he was forcefully ejected and collided with an obstacle.

[Graknorke]

.....

I am imagining Urist McAdventurer, stepping into the "Transit Pod", and getting shot off in the direct-driven continuous stream of rollers and local branch logic plates covering the planet, at break-neck speed.

Theoretically, it would actually work, if all of the sections of the network were "locally simulative" in nature.  (EG, at no point in time while the cart is being moved, is the logic controlling where the cart is going or how it is being powered ever "off screen"-- )

It would be a very complex megaproject. It would run headfirst into the Halting Problem though.

I'm not sure that would work, since you can't connect mechanisms between tiles I don't think. But you could probably do a series of lines à la the London Underground, then have your adventurer swap off at the appropriate stations.

[Thisfox]

"You are now entering the Circle Line."
"Whups. Weren't we meant to get off at Strathfield?"

This reminds me of a few minecart rollercoasters I've been on in minecraft... that other game. Back in the day.

[wierd]

.....

I am imagining Urist McAdventurer, stepping into the "Transit Pod", and getting shot off in the direct-driven continuous stream of rollers and local branch logic plates covering the planet, at break-neck speed.

Theoretically, it would actually work, if all of the sections of the network were "locally simulative" in nature.  (EG, at no point in time while the cart is being moved, is the logic controlling where the cart is going or how it is being powered ever "off screen"-- )

It would be a very complex megaproject. It would run headfirst into the Halting Problem though.

I'm not sure that would work, since you can't connect mechanisms between tiles I don't think. But you could probably do a series of lines à la the London Underground, then have your adventurer swap off at the appropriate stations.

You would need some kind of detect and switch sensor in proximity to every stop, and some way to emit a signal VERY long distances, such as perhaps, some companion weighted carts on adjacent tracks.  When the cart is nearing the next loop, it gets shunted into a round-a-bout until the signal carts arrive at the next station, and trigger the next set of destination signal cars to be released, and urist is switched out of the round-a-bout.

While this is going on, all of the logic involved is loaded in the local region, so it should still work. 

As I said, very complex-- but it could be made to work.

[Aslandus]

-snip-

You would need some kind of detect and switch sensor in proximity to every stop, and some way to emit a signal VERY long distances, such as perhaps, some companion weighted carts on adjacent tracks.  When the cart is nearing the next loop, it gets shunted into a round-a-bout until the signal carts arrive at the next station, and trigger the next set of destination signal cars to be released, and urist is switched out of the round-a-bout.

While this is going on, all of the logic involved is loaded in the local region, so it should still work. 

As I said, very complex-- but it could be made to work.

Or maybe some kind of pressure-plate station where you get dumped out at each stop and climb onto a hatch that drops you into the minecart as it drives by. A bit more cumbersome for riders, but probably easier to build. You could also have a stream of minecarts running around the region constantly so there's a minecart passing a station every minute or so...

[Graknorke]

Or maybe some kind of pressure-plate station where you get dumped out at each stop and climb onto a hatch that drops you into the minecart as it drives by. A bit more cumbersome for riders, but probably easier to build. You could also have a stream of minecarts running around the region constantly so there's a minecart passing a station every minute or so...

So like

But you could probably do a series of lines à la the London Underground, then have your adventurer swap off at the appropriate stations.

?


@wierd
Fuck that sounds complex. You'd need presumably enough signal cars to record every station, and then some computational magic to have each neighbouring station assigned to a list of potential final destinations, which you'd then compare the signal cars against and send it off that way...
With a few stations that would only be awful, but with enough to span the entire world's dwarven civilisations effectively? That would be hell.

[wierd]

Only if you think "Star Topology", because then you have to deal with the Traveling Salesman problem too. Fuck that.

Think more Token Ring, Or perhaps Fibre Channel Arbitrated Loop topology.  All sites are logically in a circle. One input, One output.  The Token (Urist in the minecart) is required for any computer on the network to send a message. To send a message, the site picks an address of who to send it TO-- then sends it upstream out the output.  The next station accepts the token, looks at the recipient data, decides if this is the destiation or not, then either offloads the passenger, or shuttles them to the next station with a new copy of the destination packet. Rinse, repeat, until Urist arrives at destination station.

Not the most efficient methodolgy, but requires much fewer brain cells to implement.

[Graknorke]

It's not *exactly* travelling salesman, since you're only going point to point rather than going round the entire thing. And given the size of a typical DF world I think that it really needs the time saved to be "practical".

[wierd]

Since when are megaprojects practical?

[Graknorke]

Hence the quote marks.

[Snaake]

Or maybe some kind of pressure-plate station where you get dumped out at each stop and climb onto a hatch that drops you into the minecart as it drives by. A bit more cumbersome for riders, but probably easier to build. You could also have a stream of minecarts running around the region constantly so there's a minecart passing a station every minute or so...

So like

But you could probably do a series of lines à la the London Underground, then have your adventurer swap off at the appropriate stations.

?


@wierd
Fuck that sounds complex. You'd need presumably enough signal cars to record every station, and then some computational magic to have each neighbouring station assigned to a list of potential final destinations, which you'd then compare the signal cars against and send it off that way...
With a few stations that would only be awful, but with enough to span the entire world's dwarven civilisations effectively? That would be hell.

Hm, correct me if I'm wrong, but even 1 on/off (1 or 0) signal car would already allow picking between two stations; if the signal is 1, you stop at the first station, else stop at the second. Two bits would allow for 4 choices and so on. This would work with the loop wierd suggested, and might be what he was considering even if he didn't mention it, but frankly it's a relatively minor detail compared to rail network vs. circular loop track.

Of course, this being DF, you technically don't *have* to stick to binary signals, differently weighted and pressure plates sensitive to those differences would technically allow for even denser information transmission... buuuut this is starting to sound more like a dwarven telegraph or something. This did make me curious as to how much information can be sent with a single minecart, for which the answer is probably that pressure plates apparently have 40 steps for the weight thresholds (1-2000kg in 50kg steps, according to the wiki). At least if we're only thinking about pressure plate logic, theoretically a code/language might be devised where certain items loaded into a minecart made of a certain material meant something specific.

[Thisfox]

... buuuut this is starting to sound more like a dwarven telegraph or something. This did make me curious as to how much information can be sent with a single minecart, for which the answer is probably that pressure plates apparently have 40 steps for the weight thresholds (1-2000kg in 50kg steps, according to the wiki). At least if we're only thinking about pressure plate logic, theoretically a code/language might be devised where certain items loaded into a minecart made of a certain material meant something specific.

....Closest example of dwarven Clacks Towers that I've seen so far, anyhow. I guess 1792 is too late period for the fantasy setting of Dwarf Fortress anyhow. Sigh.

Well, I don't have the programming abilities for this megamegaproject of breaking the dwarf long distance land speed record. Someone should recommend it on the megaprojects suggestion area though.

[wierd]

If you do the TokenRing method, all you need is a very simplistic integrator and bit shif register.  Larix has already created a number of drop-in ready designs.

Each station on the way needs to have a unique address coded into it to trigger the car to exit the round-a-bout to the station platform. Otherwise is just holds the passenger in the round-a-bout, and resets the cars to be re-sent,  uses urist circling the round-a-bout as a clock signal to get everything ready, then opens a number of doors to set the signal carts back loose again as it releases urist on the transit line.

The actual logic involved is significantly less complicated, even with many hundreds of stations in the loop.  It just means that Urist will be riding in that cart long enough to have a serious bladder emergency before he reaches his destination if his target city is waaaaaaay far from his initial platform.

This kind of thing would actually be up Larix's alley I think. 

[Graknorke]

I think a binary string is a more reasonable choice to get working. Having a magazine of carts at each site is enough work on its own without having to have 40 different weights accounted for.

[wierd]

With the star topology idea, you would need a very much more sophisticated dwarfputer at each site to store, parse, and execute based on a routing table, and would need a very information dense routing packet. Much more than a simple address like the tokenring method would need.

Depends on which kind of "Practical" you are looking for.  Practical to implement (TokenRing), or Practical for riders (Star topology)