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improvement needed/balancing needed (say what is needed)

[Pwned dwarf]

Currently in DF when you read a necromancer book you become a master necromancer that can instantly go to a catacombs & raise an army capable of whipping out the world. Instead have a skill, when you read a necro book you become a novice. All other skill comes from raising zombies or taking control of zombies.

Novice: Undead don't attack you and you can raise zombies, zombies follow you when created. Limit to 5 zombies
Adequate: tell zombies to not follow you, at any time you can tell them to follow you, they still don't follow other necromancers orders. 10 zombies
competent: 15 zombies
Skilled: tell zombies to actively guard a site from people hostile to you 20 zombies
Proficient: 25 zombies
Talented: tell zombies to not kill living things that are not hostile to you or kill things that are undead 30 zombies
Adept: 35 zombies
Expert: tell zombies to takeover a specific site without you coming with them 40 zombies
Great: 45 zombies
accomplished: take control of a other necromancer's zombie(s), the higher your skill the better the chance of succeeding and skill of the owner lowers the chance of succeeding 50 zombies
Master: take control of a wild thrall, low chance, failing makes the thrall hostile to you & not able to be captured, the more skill you have past master gives you a higher chance 60 zombies
High master: 55 zombies
Grand master: no limit to amount of zombies

[Pwned dwarf]

oops didn't mean to spam

[vjmdhzgr]

I think the zombie amount should increase slower. As it is you get all the zombies you'd ever really need or want at skilled. Maybe two zombies per level increase? Starting at 1 then adding two you'd get 31 at grand master which I think is definitely a huge amount of zombies fitting a master. Maybe each level of legendary could add five so legendary necromancer are still legendary. It does feel a bit out of place though. No other skills have such concrete effects at each level. I like it personally, but I feel that might be a potential complaint.

[Timeless Bob]

Necros need 50 zombies in world-gen to build a tower, so that should be the limiting factor - without a tower, the max you can raise and control is 50 zombies.  I'd like to see the necro ability be directly linked to the reading ability, with slabs and books requiring a certain level of reading before they can be deciphered.  While number of zombies is one aspect, zombie control is another - it may be that Necros can only control a certain number of zombies per skill level.  Raising more zombies than your skill level could increase the chance that it will attempt to attack you or that it might even cause one of your previous undead to "revert to a wild state".

[Urist McMontesOca]

This is honestly a great idea , although I can't really have a valid opinion on the subject since I've never really become a necromancer.

[Witty]

Eh, I kinda like the current system as is to be honest. Necromancy is a gift from the gods more or less, why would that be determined by skill? Maybe one's personality or attributes could determine their ability to harness it I suppose, but that's just me. 

[10ebbor10]

I must say, I dislike hard caps.

Some kind of soft cap would be better, with zombies tending not to follow orders, or start falling apart rapidly if you try to get to much for your level.

[Dyret]

Yeah, some soft cappish system would be fine, with zombies randomly collapsing or wandering off on their own after you hit your limit. I don't really see it as being too much of a problem in world gen... it's not like necros wouldn't have enough corpses to practice on. Worst case scenario you could put a cheaty 'minimum skill' on the original necromancers.

[RoguelikeRazuka]

I think all changes regarding magic should be introduced very carefully. The game is about dwarfs, and its gameplay should run about dwarfish stuff. They are not good mages as we know. Maybe it'd be wise to create some powers opposite to magic.

[Neonivek]

I prefer the current system, it is a power with no real upper limit put onto it.

If there WAS a Necromancy skill, it shouldn't be linked to whether or not the power works or how many zombies the person is allowed to control.

ESPECIALLY since Necromancers in theory are supposed to be able to raise literal armies of the undead
--

Though lets say there was going to be a Necromancy skill...

To me that should represent the "knowledge of death" and not be linked directly to the creation of undead minions. Rather it is a skill that you use to discover "secrets" eventually gaining the full power necromancy powers we know about.

As well for the Amalgum zombies necromancy would be a great skill to use... Or making zombies of super powerful beings while retaining the abilities they had in life is also an interesting use for Necromancy (Quality not amount).

If you have a very limited way of raising zombies then you are creating undead from some method that isn't what the current Necromancers do.

[EuphoriaToRegret]

I feel as if Necromancers should be treated on knowledge of Necromancy.

A necromancer skill is nice, but I think it should reflect on reading skill, how many necromancer books you've read, and, of course, how many limbs and people you've brought back to life.

It would also be interesting to see if other things besides simple reanimation will be added for necromancers.

Like maybe giving necromancers the ability to have sentient zombies.

[Aslandus]

I assume a magic skill, including necromancy, would be divided up:
-One skill for casting, which is increased by using the power (perhaps allowing you to raise zombies faster or make zombies that are stronger)
-One skill for knowledge, which you increase by reading books about the power and slabs (giving you more knowledge of different undead types, perhaps enabling a necromancer to control thralls, ghosts, bogeymen, or even vampires if they read enough)
-One skill for control, which you increase gradually by maintaining minions or spells (enabling you to give more complex commands to zombies/undead minions, divide zombies into groups, or just keep a bigger entourage)

That system could hypothetically be used in other magic types when they are added, though I can't predict what those magics will bring or how it would work with them...

[vjmdhzgr]

I assume a magic skill, including necromancy, would be divided up:
-One skill for casting, which is increased by using the power (perhaps allowing you to raise zombies faster or make zombies that are stronger)
-One skill for knowledge, which you increase by reading books about the power and slabs (giving you more knowledge of different undead types, perhaps enabling a necromancer to control thralls, ghosts, bogeymen, or even vampires if they read enough)
-One skill for control, which you increase gradually by maintaining minions or spells (enabling you to give more complex commands to zombies/undead minions, divide zombies into groups, or just keep a bigger entourage)

That system could hypothetically be used in other magic types when they are added, though I can't predict what those magics will bring or how it would work with them...

Or something like the current fighting and archery skills could be put in place where you have a skill for general magic, then still have a seperate necromancy or pyromancy or whatever skill. Multiple seperate skills for the same general thing is kind of strange, mainly because you're probably going to be using all of them at the same time. I really don't know though because currently magic is kind of a mystery aside from that it's going to be randomly generated, and that artifacts will get magical abilities.

[Gargomaxthalus]

I prefer the current system, it is a power with no real upper limit put onto it.

If there WAS a Necromancy skill, it shouldn't be linked to whether or not the power works or how many zombies the person is allowed to control.

ESPECIALLY since Necromancers in theory are supposed to be able to raise literal armies of the undead
--

Though lets say there was going to be a Necromancy skill...

To me that should represent the "knowledge of death" and not be linked directly to the creation of undead minions. Rather it is a skill that you use to discover "secrets" eventually gaining the full power necromancy powers we know about.

As well for the Amalgum zombies necromancy would be a great skill to use... Or making zombies of super powerful beings while retaining the abilities they had in life is also an interesting use for Necromancy (Quality not amount).

If you have a very limited way of raising zombies then you are creating undead from some method that isn't what the current Necromancers do.

This would be achieved by having control of a tower and securing the immediate area, perhaps controlling a few hamlets/hillocks.