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Wood burners and charcoal.
Smelters and coke.
Volcanoes and magma crabs.
There's an aquifer in the way.

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Author Topic: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.  (Read 1973 times)

StagnantSoul

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Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« on: December 24, 2014, 06:15:27 pm »

So, we all need forges. All forges need some fuel. And fuel comes from somewhere. Which fuel is your favourite? Clear cutting a forest and setting up ten wood burners? Having your miners rip apart stone and burn it in a smelter? Or simply cart magma into a pool?

I personally prefer sedimentary layers for fuel. Volcanoes are nice and all, but that requires putting myself in an easily accessible and hard to mould and change area. I've never relied on wood burners, but ten of them going in the background is sure useful for fuel.
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Nikow

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2014, 07:20:00 pm »

I usualy use Wood burners and charcoal, because there is a lot of wood on ground and from caravans. And i never did soo big metal projects to use magma... :) If Coke is here, sure, we will use, because why no, but there is always 90 charcoal, just because there is A LOT of wood now. Just breach cavern and change your mines into tree farms :)

Urist! Connect this newly mined out cube to water channels too! WE need more sticks to stick them into these zombies!
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Loyal

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2014, 08:08:50 pm »

Wood is enormously abundant now, so having a volcano is less valuable than it used to be unless you're embarking in a biome with few/no trees. Volcanos now are mostly what you use if you want some glass- or obsidian-based megaproject or want to flood some/all of the surface in magma. Even then, with a bit of effort and a combination of screw pumps and/or minecarts, the magma sea will work just fine.
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utunnels

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2014, 08:38:42 pm »

I like trees.
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Naryar

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2014, 04:22:45 am »

Volcanoes.

I cannot imagine Dwarf Fortress without embarking on volcanoes.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2014, 05:02:34 am »

I've actually never encountered coal in any of my fortresses. I definitely prefer magma, because it cuts down on the large amount of work involved in producing coal from wood. Also, I prefer to reduce the time spent in the unsecured outdoors, as I don't want to lose dwarves to siegers, titans or ambushes (I've never been ambushed, though). I've never seen ANY tree mature inside my fortress, despite quite a few years of waiting (including carving out two 40*40 or so areas of suitable ground that were left to mature [well, one of them was an attempted silk farm, but the buggers always went down to the cavern anyway]).
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C27

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2014, 07:47:13 am »

Coal: it's what's in my stocking this Yule!

Coal mining and burning just feels more fun somehow than the other methods, so I prefer it.
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Badger Storm

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2014, 12:23:41 pm »

It's rare I get to the magma sea - and if I do, it's a drain on my already not-so-great FPS.  It also seems like a /lot/ of work for something that you can get much more easily from a renewable and very accessible source, especially since my dwarves spend almost all of their time pretty close to ground level.

Of course, if I get lignite or coal, I won't hesitate to use that.
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Chaosegg

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2014, 01:08:37 pm »

I used to do wood burning mainly
 but I 'wised up' (my early fort goals now usually revolve around kicking the smithing trade into high gear ASAP)
 and started bringing tons of bit. coal (or lignite if no coal from civ) at embark.

My first go was to bring something like 30+ and my next fort I brought 60+ units of bit. coal.
I also bring one anvil and a unit of coke as I read in this wiki article among others.
If I arrive and find plenty of coal or lignite to mine/smelt, I'm still happy since it only costs 3/unit at embark anyway.  :)
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Nikow

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 07:36:15 pm »

I've actually never encountered coal in any of my fortresses. I definitely prefer magma, because it cuts down on the large amount of work involved in producing coal from wood. Also, I prefer to reduce the time spent in the unsecured outdoors, as I don't want to lose dwarves to siegers, titans or ambushes (I've never been ambushed, though). I've never seen ANY tree mature inside my fortress, despite quite a few years of waiting (including carving out two 40*40 or so areas of suitable ground that were left to mature [well, one of them was an attempted silk farm, but the buggers always went down to the cavern anyway]).
How many z-levels it had? 7z levels working fine, 2-3 worked too for shrooms, 13z level is fine too. You dorfs can not go there soo often, because when They will go by little tree it will not grow up...
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Niddhoger

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 10:00:54 pm »

I used to do wood burning mainly
 but I 'wised up' (my early fort goals now usually revolve around kicking the smithing trade into high gear ASAP)
 and started bringing tons of bit. coal (or lignite if no coal from civ) at embark.

My first go was to bring something like 30+ and my next fort I brought 60+ units of bit. coal.
I also bring one anvil and a unit of coke as I read in this wiki article among others.
If I arrive and find plenty of coal or lignite to mine/smelt, I'm still happy since it only costs 3/unit at embark anyway.  :)

Yar, coal is redonkulously cheap to bring on embark.  If you are bringing coal, you should also consider bringing metal to forge your own picks/axes.  This saves a ton of points that you can use to... bring more coal! I also found that with the new herbalism, you don't need to bring any food, seeds, plants, or drink with you (maybe 7-14 to play it safe).  I then used those points to.. bring moar coal! Then you ditch all the cloth and wooden items (if anything just bring logs/thread and make it yourself).  and use those points to bring moar coal! Although tbh, I did use some of those points to bring 20-30 something leather (to make bags/backpacks/waterskins).  I mean, 100 units of coal is starting to get silly.  THe main thing to keep in mind is that you also need to bring a couple units of stone (to build the smelter/forge) as well as that starter unit of coke. 

Eh... I actually DON'T get the metal industry running up first.  Its one of those things I do in the 2nd or 3rd year as more fort starts to feel established.  Sure, I'll bring a weapon/armorsmith with me and bang out a couple sets of iron/bronze armor (2-5) while my miners start carving out the fort.  I then shelve those until I can afford to spare the dorf-power as I continue to settle into my new fort.  I got to get all the rooms carved out, set up the workshops/stockpiles, fill the rooms with furniture, set up defenses/trap line, pierce the cavern and butcher all the junk beasties that wander in, get my craftdorfs busy cranking out bone goods/bowyer cranking out bone xbows...... and then once I start to feel the fort is "maturing" I get the charcoal lines going and the metal stockpiles set uup.  With all the hauling of heavy ores and the production chain of hauling wood to burners/coal to smelters, then using the coke/coal with ores, then turning around and banging those out into furntiure or masterwork armor.  It just feels like too much dorf time to get set up and running properly when my dorfs need rooms and food and general not dying first.  Again, I'll tend to bring along some extra metal/coal and bang out some armor/weapons while the initial fort is being carved.  But then I have the most important part of metalworking, so I focus on getting the rest of my fort set up first.  Then when I have spare dorfs (and furnished bedrooms) I'll consider getting the rest set up. 
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2014, 10:41:02 pm »

That's actually not such a bad idea. Bring: 1 iron anvil, 10 granite boulders and 1 granite block, a bunch of kaolinite+bitimous coal+Copper nuggets, 1 unit of fuel, some logs, and a bunch of drinks and milk. Dogs, hens, and cats. I'm doing this on my next fort.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2014, 04:29:09 am »

@Nikow: My fortress used single Z-level rooms. It would require quite a bit of effort to create multi level tree farms, since there generally isn't a sufficiently large soil layer between the ground and the aquifer, so you'd have to dig a multi Z-level cave in rock and muddify it it you want a high tree farm. I didn't have any foot traffic in one room, and very little in the other one so trampling wasn't an issue. I might try to create a multi level tree farm cavern in my current fortress to see if that works better. Thanks for the advice.
If multiple Z-levels are required, I don't understand the warnings about trees growing in (and blocking) your water tunnels and pumps stacks, though.
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Arx

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2014, 05:37:26 am »

The number of trees and their new yield means I rely on clear-cutting with a clean conscience, even in areas that don't have very much in the way of forest.
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Nikow

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Re: Volcanoes vs sedimentary layer vs heavily forested areas.
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2014, 09:06:17 am »

@Nikow: My fortress used single Z-level rooms. It would require quite a bit of effort to create multi level tree farms, since there generally isn't a sufficiently large soil layer between the ground and the aquifer, so you'd have to dig a multi Z-level cave in rock and muddify it it you want a high tree farm. I didn't have any foot traffic in one room, and very little in the other one so trampling wasn't an issue. I might try to create a multi level tree farm cavern in my current fortress to see if that works better. Thanks for the advice.
If multiple Z-levels are required, I don't understand the warnings about trees growing in (and blocking) your water tunnels and pumps stacks, though.
It's not soo much work as you can thins. If you will start carving your treefarm using channeling everything will be okey. I usualy have some sever system, just because i like a lot of wells (RolePlay reasons). Just dig some small room, like 3x3x1 as your tank, close it by door from one side and floodgate from other. Then pierce aquifer, so it will flood the tank room, and your dwarf fill flee by door. Later lock the door, and wall it if you do not trust your minions. Next room needs a little enginering skills: Make bigger room, like 5x5x1 with plate in middle, who will close your tank when it will be filled to 5/7 level or more. 5/7 level is safe for your dorfs, then connect it to your plumber system. Aquifer is source of infinite water and it's infinite sponge, so it will get whole water back. Good idea (sometimes) is make drain to first cave level too, just to clear it out from nasty thingies. :) :) :)
Small control room with levers to open/close watering system and drain is good idea.

There is other idea how to water it, i was using it when i was scared by water. Just make a 1x1x{z} holes, where {z} is your tree farm 1.3*x*y/7. Sadly, this method is slow and intense dwarve labor, because for small 10x10 farm you need 2 tubes 1x1x9 down (63 water units in each). If you want sparse your terrain, you can make smaller tubes connected to middle-section tanks, but it will waste more water units, so your dwarves will have more water to carry. The best idea is when you will make source well/water hole near your entrance above aquifer and watering tubes just near your under it. Remember, to fill 3x3 tank without evapolate you need 3z levels tube, if because you need 2/7 water on tiles, so if you use 2z level tube, not 3z, your water just disapear... after short time.

One dorf need 4 units of water/booze per season, so 3x3 tank will be enough for 15 dwarfs for one season. 5x5 will be enough for 43 dwarfs? Water is important, as you see, as reserve. But if am i correct, your dworf will carry only one unit water per bucket... And water is usesfull for engineering, like http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Fluid_logic#Toggle_Flipflop, just to keep autoclosing bridge closed when enemy will press plate, just because your dwarves are to slow to pull lever usualy.
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In my fortress dwarves are dying from old age.
Dwarven wine is a little bit like good chicken soup:  solid at room temperature.
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