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[AlexanderTheIncompetant]

 Greetings fellow overlords.
 I find it deeply inefficient to have children grow up to be peasants. Instead, We should have school with teachers teach basic skills, complete with mining school trips/apprenticeships they take with their parents/other adults with useful skills. 

[Reelya]

Please use the search facilities for existing threads. There have been tons of schools and apprenticeship suggestions already, and we've gone into a lot more detail about the specific game mechanics of how it would work. This is a common suggestion and you haven't even put any of effort into outlining how you want it to work.

[AlexanderTheIncompetant]

ok

[C27]

From what I gather, it's waiting on books to become a fortress-relevant thing. Once we have libraries and scribing/printing/bookbinding, then a school where dwarves can learn skills from books (and instruction) starts to make more sense.

[AlexanderTheIncompetant]

But apprenticeships or skill schools shouldn't really need books. They would only be needed for history and stuff, that dwarves apparently already know as they engrave it, so it and most probably other things are transmitted orally. School here would rather be to have children grow up and be immediately useful.

[Reelya]

Schools are a modern invention, they don't fit with the Dwarf Fortress stated theme of 14th century technology. Apprenticeships do. Toady is planning to bring guilds in eventually, and that is when apprenticeships will surely be implemented, he likes to overhaul a whole set of related features at the same time.

[LMeire]

Schools are a modern invention, they don't fit with the Dwarf Fortress stated theme of 14th century technology. ...

The Aztecs had a compulsory schooling program around that time, it was mostly focused on religion and warfare but the system was similar in practice to modern schools.

[Niddhoger]

Schools are a modern invention, they don't fit with the Dwarf Fortress stated theme of 14th century technology. ...

The Aztecs had a compulsory schooling program around that time, it was mostly focused on religion and warfare but the system was similar in practice to modern schools.

Dwarf fortress isn't based around Aztec customs, technology, or beliefs.  Its firmly routed in medieval -western- mythos. 

Now, COLLEGES started forming in the late 11th century in Europe.  There were academies before that in ancient Greece.  However, these were"elite" institutions that only noble spawn, the exceedingly wealthy, or otherwise connected (church) could get into.  I believe private tutors were more common, but also for the rich only.  Learning for the common people was mostly restricted to what their parents knew (My daddy was a miller, I'm a miller, my kids will be millers).  Richer peasants could afford to buy an apprenticeship for a child to learn side-by-side with a guild. 

I'd settle for just making the little bastards into haulers.  It doesn't require skill, it doesn't require any intelligence at all.  They wouldn't be strong enough to properly haul stone, but hauling cloth from the loom to the stockpile near the dyers shop, or hauling food to the larder should be fine.

[AlexanderTheIncompetant]

 By apprenticeship I don't mean complex, expensive private tutors. It would be more like children learning from parents or adult friends. The whole peasant has to do parents' job is sort of inapplicable for DF as the player decides what dwarves are allowed to do and not do through labors. I agree schools (the way we picture them now) would be more for nobles. Maybe It could turn them into playwrights or other useful things that could be implemented were there an art and history focused update.

[dudlol]

With economy tutors could work for specific skills. Though more... skilled... skills would require apprenticeships. I would imagine. Learn all you want about blowing glass, 'till you've actually done it you're still going to suck pretty hard. Though you may learn the skill more quickly if you already posses the theory.

[Reelya]

I'd settle for just making the little bastards into haulers.  It doesn't require skill, it doesn't require any intelligence at all.  They wouldn't be strong enough to properly haul stone, but hauling cloth from the loom to the stockpile near the dyers shop, or hauling food to the larder should be fine.

That was similar to my apprenticeship suggestion actually, it was to attach a kid to an artisan (or maybe a particular workshop), and that kid would do the "go fetch this" / "stockpile that" stuff to keep the operation going smoothly. Maybe they even look ahead to the next task queued on that workshop and get the needed materials ready while the previous job is underway. And they'd have a *slow* progression of the core task any time they interact with their craft's "master". So the idea would be that the kids might be level 4-5 by the time they're adults rather than complete novices, plus they add to fortress productivity and smooth production. This would increase current productivity, reduce wasted hauling time for artisans, and overall lead to an increase in average quality of items made (skilled dwarfs focus more on creation, and the untrained focus on helping, plus they start with a skill boost and don't churn out mountains of rubbish to train up).

[AlexanderTheIncompetant]

I'd settle for just making the little bastards into haulers.  It doesn't require skill, it doesn't require any intelligence at all.  They wouldn't be strong enough to properly haul stone, but hauling cloth from the loom to the stockpile near the dyers shop, or hauling food to the larder should be fine.

That was similar to my apprenticeship suggestion actually, it was to attach a kid to an artisan (or maybe a particular workshop), and that kid would do the "go fetch this" / "stockpile that" stuff to keep the operation going smoothly. Maybe they even look ahead to the next task queued on that workshop and get the needed materials ready while the previous job is underway. And they'd have a *slow* progression of the core task any time they interact with their craft's "master". So the idea would be that the kids might be level 4-5 by the time they're adults rather than complete novices, plus they add to fortress productivity and smooth production. This would increase current productivity, reduce wasted hauling time for artisans, and overall lead to an increase in average quality of items made (skilled dwarfs focus more on creation, and the untrained focus on helping, plus they start with a skill boost and don't churn out mountains of rubbish to train up).

Good idea. And in periods when there are no apprentices we can use elven slaves to feed the wood burneries and furnaces.

[Timeless Bob]

Why not just treat children as a form of trainable cat?  Essentially, babies and children are already wild animals that don't get hunted, but wander around anyway (Much like cats). Designate a dwarf to the labor of "Child Training" and set up an area to do this in, just as we would for animal training.  When the kid becomes "Child (Tame)", it can then be added to a dwarf much as any work animal, to follow them around and be helpful in small tasks.  (This would be called "apprenticeship"). 

After a year of following the dwarf around, the kid would get "Novice" in that skill set and would be able to increase at a natural pace in that skill by helping its Master around and giving the Master a speed buff on completion of tasks (because the apprentices are given the scut work, so the Master has more time to focus on the high skill areas.)

Once the apprentice reaches adulthood, they are released from the apprenticeship but are unable to take on apprentices of their own until they become a "Master" in a skill.  This would be the "Journeyman" phase of a dwarf's career.

Simple.

[vjmdhzgr]

Why not just treat children as a form of trainable cat?  Essentially, babies and children are already wild animals that don't get hunted, but wander around anyway (Much like cats). Designate a dwarf to the labor of "Child Training" and set up an area to do this in, just as we would for animal training.  When the kid becomes "Child (Tame)", it can then be added to a dwarf much as any work animal, to follow them around and be helpful in small tasks.  (This would be called "apprenticeship"). 

After a year of following the dwarf around, the kid would get "Novice" in that skill set and would be able to increase at a natural pace in that skill by helping its Master around and giving the Master a speed buff on completion of tasks (because the apprentices are given the scut work, so the Master has more time to focus on the high skill areas.)

Once the apprentice reaches adulthood, they are released from the apprenticeship but are unable to take on apprentices of their own until they become a "Master" in a skill.  This would be the "Journeyman" phase of a dwarf's career.

Simple.

The second half of that sounds like such a serious, well thought out suggestion, but the first half sounds so much like a joke.

[Niddhoger]

The second half of that sounds like such a serious, well thought out suggestion, but the first half sounds so much like a joke.

A better way of saying it would be "Daycare system."  Presumably one that doesn't involve mauling freeloaders... er "precious children" with dogs.