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Author Topic: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]  (Read 169703 times)

Max™

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #135 on: May 18, 2015, 10:18:13 pm »

I dunno about more epic, but I've spent far more time in 40.xx than 34.11.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #136 on: May 18, 2015, 11:50:29 pm »

For what it's worth, I once did a game where I made ridiculously modded super-dwarves and pets in 34.01 to test out whether it was possible to permanently "beat" the HFS.  I started the experiment here.  (Rather than zombies, I was using "Moo-Moo Cows Of Armok" that were flying 60-ton creatures made of slade-like materials that spawned at insane rates and were pets to act as bodyguards.)

The main problem I had, besides the absolutely ATROCIOUS FPS death, (thanks to literally tens of thousands of corpses,) was that as I got closer and closer to completely walling off Hell, I kept having demons spawn on the last half-dozen spawn points available, causing cancellation spam. Worse, the dwarves couldn't move demon corpses off the area I was building walls faster than fresh dismembered demon limbs rained down upon the designated building areas. Of course, this was with my mighty Moo Moo Cow army eviscerating the legions of the HFS as they spawned. 

(I also purposefully restricted the number of demon types just to keep their overall population down, but it really doesn't have much impact...)

If you use Flame's system of tricking them into chasing something shiny, and locking the door behind them, you might be able to completely wall off the HFS entirely, but I'm not 100% certain that you wouldn't then simply cause them to spawn in the third caverns, and more and more unoccupied tiles further up, as they seem to follow a mechanic of simply going up more tiles until they find a valid spawn point.  That is, it may be impossible to stop demons from spawning unless you block literally every edge tile on the whole map.  Hence, finding a way to keep the random couple "wild animal" demon spawns trapped like Flame is talking about, so as to prevent further spawns is the only practical way to "beat" the HFS forever.
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pisskop

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #137 on: May 19, 2015, 08:33:09 am »

I dunno about more epic, but I've spent far more time in 40.xx than 34.11.
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Sir, Ive played my share of 40.xx, and it has its own merits.
but go DL and play 1 fort in 34.11.  Play 3 years there.
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Amperzand

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #138 on: May 19, 2015, 12:44:15 pm »

They need to fix the sieges.
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Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
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TheFlame52

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #139 on: May 19, 2015, 03:24:51 pm »

No, I didn't wall off the exact edge of hell. I walled off 5 tiles from the edge of hell. The demons still roam outside the wall, but can't get in.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #140 on: May 19, 2015, 05:18:49 pm »

For what it's worth, I once did a game where I made ridiculously modded super-dwarves and pets in 34.01 to test out whether it was possible to permanently "beat" the HFS.  I started the experiment here.  (Rather than zombies, I was using "Moo-Moo Cows Of Armok" that were flying 60-ton creatures made of slade-like materials that spawned at insane rates and were pets to act as bodyguards.)

my dwarves can't shove the corpses off the tiles fast enough to build a wall there before the next wave of clowns topples the wall all over again, spreading their stupid dismembered body parts all over my wall just to annoy me.  Stupid clowns, always getting thesmelves dismembered horribly in annoying ways.
That's pretty fucking brutal

You're still doing Holy Work, LW.
Make me want to play again it does.  But 34.11, where combat felt epic.
What was it, in 40d where Dwarves could rather easily punch goblins to the moon? As the game gets more realistic, the age of heroism will come to an end. All in all, I welcome such improvements, an epic struggle is no such struggle when every single battle is like it. Really though, I haven't actually noticed much of a change between 34 and 40, both were highly realistic. IIRC the biggest changes to combat moving from .34 to .40 were that momentum was a thing, ranged combat had been nerfed (no more crossbows firing harpoon bolts, no more snowball fights resulting in death), multiple actions could be made per round, and pulping, jumping and climbing exists. I'd like to think hundreds of ravens flensing the flesh from bones of devils would be epic, no matter the game version :P

I think this is one of those times when using DFHack or similar is acceptable, if only to find the goddamn necro.
An eternal unbreakable siege by undead adds flavor to a fort though. Don't think LW gets migrants anymore even if the siege was lifted.
Yeah, this is one of those times where if it's a bug it's now a feature. Though then again if 'the Attack of Volcanoes' ended, the much more dangerous goblins would be allowed to siege. It's a tough call really, and even if I wanted to, I doubt there'd be anything I could do to trigger an end to the necro siege.

No, I didn't wall off the exact edge of hell. I walled off 5 tiles from the edge of hell. The demons still roam outside the wall, but can't get in.
I do recall from theAussieguy's checkerboard, that when he walled off hell he included pockets within the wall to allow demons to spawn within the wall. This would solve the issue of demons possibly spawning in the 3rd cavern layer, the issue of infinitely respawning demons and demons spawning on the construction site. Fortunately for the 3rd cavern layer, I do not intend to wall off hell, as I want the demons to come so they get caught in a mire of undead bits for all eternity, but this knowledge is still useful.

Amperzand

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #141 on: May 19, 2015, 06:02:46 pm »

It's really too bad demons can't reanimate, the army of the dead would be self-sustaining then.
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

Max™

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #142 on: May 19, 2015, 07:21:09 pm »

Raven hoard turning into raven zombie horde vs demon will always be epic.

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pisskop

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #143 on: May 19, 2015, 08:52:12 pm »

It's really too bad demons can't reanimate, the army of the dead would be self-sustaining then.
Which reminds me.  What are you doing with vampires, LW?

Surely they will be getting a special military squad and/or corpse dungeon staffing?
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

Amperzand

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #144 on: May 19, 2015, 11:33:21 pm »

I don't think he has any, since the fort's sealed.
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

Amperzand

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #145 on: May 22, 2015, 03:23:31 am »

Also, I just had some major werelizard issues in my newest fort. Didn't do it deliberately, but now I have a squad of five werelizards safely contained and training, including one of my founding seven as the commander. Poor sods. I shall attempt to act by your example and offer them respect.
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #146 on: May 22, 2015, 10:30:17 am »

On the other hand, adventurers are the only way to pick a fort site, knowing what I know about my worlds from adventurer mode I would never have placed my old forts where I did.

Personally, I tend to go with copying my save folder, embarking on a site, looking around, then abandoning until I find a place I like.  (I consider it functionally just a sped-up version of what should be a scouting operation before a major fortress is built, anyway.) Adventurers can do that, too, but have additional delays associated with them.
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"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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Loud Whispers

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2015, 05:56:06 pm »

It's really too bad demons can't reanimate, the army of the dead would be self-sustaining then.
Which reminds me.  What are you doing with vampires, LW?
Surely they will be getting a special military squad and/or corpse dungeon staffing?
I don't think he has any, since the fort's sealed.
I did have plans to screen migrants for vampires, ranging from false-drowning chambers to simple corpse screening, but no vampire will ever show up here. Which is a shame, as they could have been highly valuable. A vampire can stroll right through a necromancer horde just to stab the necromancer, and they'd make great corpse haulers/clearers.

Also, I just had some major werelizard issues in my newest fort. Didn't do it deliberately, but now I have a squad of five werelizards safely contained and training, including one of my founding seven as the commander. Poor sods. I shall attempt to act by your example and offer them respect.
I try to respect all of my Dwarves in this Fort, that's why it's especially unfortunate for the were-dwarves that things were done... As they were done. Try to keep them away from good furniture when the full moon comes; I use the two ones I still have to demolish unwanted schist and slate armour racks. And though they don't need to ever eat or drink, it certainly keeps them happy!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In the mean time my Dwarves have begun incorporating demon bone into fashion statements. Around 30 steel spikes are being put into place (with over 20 already in position), cage traps and a giant cave spider are being prepared and the forgeworks are hard at work (with the number of forgemasters growing from 3 to 14 over the years) to refine more steel for the military, but developments in hell itself have been quiet.
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Most work has been quite mundane, with the Dwarves working through the winter to renovate the incredibly old waterways and cisterns, which had begun to sprout underwater trees in them (amongst other fungus). Also managed to install a new working river-control bridge, so when the river thaws all of my architects won't horribly drown to death. It will keep the reservoir capacity at maximum, and will also keep my Fort's legendary architect Kogan employed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Saw a child crawling about to get to work deconstructing some scaffolding atop one of the newly completed towers, doing all of this without functioning legs. Looked up his history and though I don't really know how the hell he got injured (I'm guessing it was demons or gravity) I feel pride in dat efficiency. Two months from entry till discharge! Doc Onul's surname Nazushtakud is also somewhat fitting, as it means Bloodmachine. Things like these should more than make up for all the moments when patients come in with total organ failure and blistering. I suspect things will be quiet all through the Fort for a while.

The surface world is still derelict of all life, with not a single creature roaming the paved killing fields of Silentthunders. The Dowding Observatory is empty, there is no need for a Dwarf to man it. It has been a long time since Ravens have been seen in the blood red skies. The crackle of magma, the pattering of raining dwarf blood and the rude shouting of the mechanics as they set up the southern perimeter's wall spikes are all that can be heard under the sun. Elf skeletons litter the surface, but they stay dead. Due to heightened security, no Dwarves bother to pick them up and bring them to the corpsepiles. Within the walls of the Fort is a Kingdom unto itself, there is nothing for the Dwarves outside. The walls grow higher, and to the southwest lie the ashes from the last titan attack.

The first cavern layer is still recovering from the genocidal flood that was unleashed when draining the cistern, strangely no living thing can grow in this layer - despite all the violent irrigation. It is comforting to know that the cave spiders (the small kind) survived the flood, as their silk webs have begun reappearing on what are now islands (albeit muddy webs).

The second cavern layer is infested with various FBs composed of flame (or ones that shoot flame), so the undead don't have much of a chance to snowball into a horde anymore, the FBs just incinerate their fallen bodies. The trees and giant fungal structures have grown so dense that traversing the cavern layer beyond the Fortress killing field is not feasible for any large number of soldiers. Despite the dense pseudoforestry proving resistant to burning, periodic fires sweep through the undergrowth, these fires now common to all but one of the islands in this layer. In the middle is a crocodile composed of mud that was trapped by the dense growth of plants and fungi, a long time ago. I intended to catch it but it was never safe enough to return to finish the job, and it has remained trapped there ever since, always remaining in the same spot. I imagine by this point trees have begun to grow on it, around it, maybe even through it - it is composed of mud, after all.

The third cavern layer has a zombie hairy earthworm with noxious secretions lurking in the depths, but not much else - I don't even send Marksdwarves to the magmaforge walls to kill it anymore, as it appears to be motionless when undisturbed, forever waiting for something in the waters. It could be a valuable corpse, as only its brain is damaged. I don't know whether it'll ever leave the subterranean sea.

Hell itself is just one massive monument to the battles that were. The corpses and chitin of creatures that have never been seen again lie in pools of strangely coloured blood, amidst a sea of glowing endless pits and dark rolling slade hills, peppered with crossbow bolts of copper, bronze and steel. Of the killers of demons, few traces of them remain. Here lies a pile of Om's salt, a raven leg, a copper breastplate... Only small footprints left behind, of the beasts, corpses and dwarves that stood taller than the forces of hell. The Fortress that stands in the spire stands as a limestone bastion of Dwarfkind, white upon black stone, yet it seems to have become one with the terrorscape. At the spire breach, where it all began, a massive web over 50 spans wide and as tall as hell itself stretches across entire glowing pits. It too is quiet, its creators long dead, its victims long gone. Even the living demons, flying in their cackling packs of brutes, feel like ghosts that forgot to die. They are gargoyles roaming the halls of violent calamity, aimlessly scouring the land for nothing, like seagulls in Brighton.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
An old friend was caught in the 3rd cavern layer, having somehow escaped the corpse factory. All that is left of the snake that an elven caravan once left in Silentthunders is a skull, a spine and a few aged scales. This is one corpse which will not be reused, it will be given rest in a burial at magma sea.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The spire corpse factory is almost entirely reclaimed. What few body parts have not been recollected are ones which will not resurrect, with only a few exceptions here and there. The factory is being incorporated into the subterranean fortress complex now that the spire is secured (unfortunately, secured in such a way that much of the adamantine is unreachable). Once the masons are done making stone blocks for the reservoir renovations, construction should resume in hell itself. There is a particular glowing pit I have in mind, to be the site of a brand new Colosseum.

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #148 on: May 22, 2015, 08:30:16 pm »

Has anyone mentioned that you've adopted a rather mournful, nostalgic tone?  I mean, I half-wanted to slam back a bottle of (dwarven) rum and pine for the good ol' days...
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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Amperzand

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Re: Ravens are murder. [SPOILERS]
« Reply #149 on: May 22, 2015, 09:37:43 pm »

His writing has both improved and gotten sadder. It's a stylistic thing, at least for me.

Also, it turned out I had a misdiagnosis problem, only one of the supposedly infected dwarves actually was, and killed three of the others when he changed. The surviving other, one Vutok, managed to kill him without becoming infected himself, and is now my militia commander.
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com
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