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Author Topic: Starbound - Caveat emptor  (Read 451039 times)

Vendayn

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #525 on: February 25, 2015, 06:27:45 pm »

Wot Jocan sed.

Also, I see you converted a floran prison into part of your base.

Yeah, the area looked awesome and had to use it :P I did block off the spikes, I got annoyed I kept falling into them rofl.
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Neonivek

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #526 on: April 04, 2015, 07:43:38 pm »

Why ohh why is the first boss in Starbound 10 times harder then all the other bosses? Heck I didn't even know the third boss was a boss, I thought he was just a particularly strong enemy.

Heck the first boss' dungeon is harder then all the other dungeons.

This is a really weird design choice.

Also why is the Boss' 2nd form harder then the third?

---

Ohh well they smoothed out the gameplay vastly in some areas... Though not in others.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #527 on: April 04, 2015, 11:17:28 pm »

I'm not a big fan of the dungeon balance.
All the dungeons ended up with me shooting enemies off-screen, running out of aggro range, then repeating until they're dead.

Though this may be due to how early I did them. Maaybe.
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Seriyu

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #528 on: April 05, 2015, 12:14:30 am »

yeah, combat in starbound isn't anything to write home about. Something they're going to have to address if they want to make it a central focus in dungeons and such.

the real issue is more the lack of checkpoints in dungeons (if they haven't changed that). having to go through a 30 minute dungeon again because you had 1 less bandage then you needed is horrible.

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #529 on: April 05, 2015, 01:03:37 am »

yeah, combat in starbound isn't anything to write home about. Something they're going to have to address if they want to make it a central focus in dungeons and such.

the real issue is more the lack of checkpoints in dungeons (if they haven't changed that). having to go through a 30 minute dungeon again because you had 1 less bandage then you needed is horrible.
I find that checkpoints lessen the already less-than-significant challenge. Unless you rush headlong into them, without preparation, most dungeons are pretty easy. Checkpoints are good for straight-up platformers, not faux-survival games.

Also mission dungeons are going to persist now, for 10 minutes after being exited, so if you die you won't have to fight through the enemies again if you go back in immediately, and the platforming itself is hardly difficult.
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Neonivek

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #530 on: April 05, 2015, 01:17:20 am »

You, uh, you run around the arena and you flick switches. If you get lased, you eat a bandage. First boss isn't much to grope with, and to base balance off of it alone seems rather silly. Then again, your general conclusions about games and balance are vague and sweeping enough about anything to be defined in an agreeable way following anyone disagreeing to you, so invariably you are arguably right about something given the arbitrary definition of a few terms and gameplay concepts that may not apply to every reader.

Well I'll put it another way.

You can die in 1-3 hits from its laser in the armor appropriate for that level. If you don't keep up with its lasers (which is likely given you need the dash and jump) it can rip you to shreds. It is a fast moving, high damaging attack. It takes genuine skill not to die to this boss. As well while it is possible to flick all the switches before he completes two patterns of his laser (which I have done a few times), you usually have to survive two laser patterns of his 2nd and 3rd form. Mind you, this 2nd form is the only one that is legitimately dangerous but it isn't unusual to take a hit from his first (If you lose to his third form... I don't know what is wrong with you.)

While the second boss shoots incredibly weak fireballs that take off very little amounts of health and while he is a HUGE damage sponge he telegraphs all his strongest attacks and even then you can easily heal even if you are hit with every single one. In fact I'd say it is conceivably possible to win this boss fight standing perfectly still. He does summon minions later on, but they aren't anything really to concern yourself with. You can kill most of them in single hits.

While the Third boss does a really slow attack, only runs on the ground, and only does mild damage. He is also a damage sponge but you can avoid him without even using dashes or blocks. You can easily do this fight without being hit once and even when your hit it is no big deal... I fact you can outheal his damage output. As in he is another boss you can beat standing perfectly still in theory (I am less confident about this, since I don't know how fast he attacks)
-As I said. I fought this guy thinking he was a midboss or just a really durable enemy.

Difficulty curve in general is that the first boss was the hardest, the second was easier, the third was easiest.

---

Now lets compare first and third dungeons

1) The enemies aren't too too strong but they have a splash attack that will either destroy your shield, if you don't time it right, or deal a considerable amount of damage. They actually take a good beating for this point of the game. As well if you do it wrong you can find yourself fighting three or more at a time.
3) You will walk through those enemies... there are traps but they mostly only deal poison to you. None of them do the damage required to threaten you and none of them pose a threat to your shield. In fact a common drop at this point of the game one hit kills them and it isn't even a 2-handed weapon.

---

Specific enough for you Naxza? You played the game...

I was being vague because it was a comment on something I figured everyone who played this already knows (in fact someone here ALREADY complained about how tough the first boss is).

I didn't think there was such a harsh debate... Or maybe after the first boss I suddenly gained 100 real life levels and became super human and that is why I found the following bosses easier and easier.

I dunno, easier for me to accept that the game has a negative difficulty curve (As in the game gets easier the further you go), then it is for me to believe I got so good at it.

---

Quote
Unless you rush headlong into them, without preparation

Actually you can do it with a few of them. Unless they force you into fighting, I've found that sometimes rushing a dungeon is easier then completing it as intended.

I didn't do that mostly because I was trying to have fun and I figured skipping most of the fights would detract from that.

---

Unless the fourth dungeon REALLY throws me through a loop (which will take a while... the grind I'll have to do to get to it has... made me not want to play for a bit... I honestly thought getting 200 titanium ore was going to be enough for my needs, ohh how foolish I was.)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 01:30:08 am by Neonivek »
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Baijiu

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #531 on: April 05, 2015, 01:28:11 am »

I think it's been fixed now, but the worst thing about the 1st boss was that the laser didn't line up with your hitbox, so you'd be dodging the laser perfectly fine and the WHAMMO you'd get for an absurd amount of damage out of the blue and instantly die.
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Neonivek

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #532 on: April 05, 2015, 01:31:36 am »

I think it's been fixed now, but the worst thing about the 1st boss was that the laser didn't line up with your hitbox, so you'd be dodging the laser perfectly fine and the WHAMMO you'd get for an absurd amount of damage out of the blue and instantly die.

Yeah it is fixed. The only odd thing I noticed is that it can sometimes hit you even when you perfectly block it. But I chalked it up to the laser "technically" hitting your back as it passes by.

Also, you can do pretty much the entire first dungeon safely without killing anyone.

--

Also another balance oddity

In the end, I think "Green" weapons have been far more useful then Purple. Usually it is the Purple weapon's gimmick that interferes with it being useful. While the Green weapons are usually just a really good weapon.

This is a general statement mind you, I could have been unlucky and got all the weird ones.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 01:35:11 am by Neonivek »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #533 on: April 05, 2015, 02:05:58 am »

The green/purple weapons are all over the place, as per the norm. It's not uncommon (heh) even in regular Diablo-clones to find low-rarity weapons that are more useful than high-rarity ones.

As to the first boss fight, I do not agree at all. You have to have no platforming skill whatsoever to be even /hit/ by the first two phases of the laser sweeps, and you should have a shield or two-hander to block sweeps you can't evade - usually while dropping down into a beam sweeping up.

If you had a lot of trouble on the first boss, but didn't have trouble later on, it probably is indeed because the first boss has some platforming experience requirement that it hammers into you as you fight it.

Also there is no fourth dungeon. Better remember all your platforming skills and do your best to apply them to a closed room with no platforms, because that one's a classic boss fight.
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Neonivek

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #534 on: April 05, 2015, 02:10:41 am »

Odd, maybe my character is set to walk and I never realized it. Since that laser is always faster than I can move unless I also have dash.

As for Green and Purple... I'd say it if the evidence didn't seem to overwhelmingly skew towards Green superiority in my very limited experience. The only two good purples I found that I could have used was the Axe you get in the first tier (Pre-first boss rather), and I think I found a plasma grenade launcher (but it was outshined by greens)

Mind you, you still toss out most weapons anyway.

I also noticed that weapons that deal tiny bits of damage but really fast are better against monsters then armored opponents.

While weapons that deal a ton of damage all at once are better against armored opponents. Due to how armor works (straight up damage negation rather than a percent)

Though huge damage also works well against monsters...

Mind you I know that will change in the future since the creators have long since commented on how it was an issue.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 02:16:27 am by Neonivek »
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #535 on: April 05, 2015, 02:17:15 am »

Yep, it's so damn easy that after more than 20 attempts overloaded with everything I could lay hands on (tho' I refuse to use out-of-tier armor or weapons) and using every strategy I've seen mentioned anywhere, I still can't beat the damned thing without /admin.  For fucks' sake, I stomped Super Metroid into the god damned ground in the amount of time I've wasted trying to beat this asshole boss legitimately.
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Vendayn

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #536 on: April 05, 2015, 02:29:39 am »

I didn't find the first boss that hard. It was the first time as I died right away being pwned by the lazers.

But, each lazer phase has an obvious pattern so its easy to just keep dodging them. Each phase has "safety" areas where the lazers can't get you if you are on certain platforms (well 1st phase you just have to keep running away as it moves back and forth). But, I personally didn't find it that hard. In fact, hardest of the 3 phases (for me anyway) is the 1st phase as if you fall off the platform you get owned by the lazer.

I did find it really annoying though. And if I make a new character (and I have a habit of making new characters even in games I don't need to make new characters :P), I'm forced to do it again...and again...and again. I didn't find the 1st boss that fun, personally found it easy...but kinda boring. The lazers are too predictable except for the 1st phase. I know that is probably how its supposed to be, but for me...I prefer more dynamic/randomness in my games. But also not BS random, but actual realistic AI. Probably not what the game is aiming for though. But I'm not a big fan of being in a Not like movie-like set where the AI does the same thing over and over in obvious patterns.

Skyrim has the same problem with the dragons, the dragons do the same thing over and over. Maybe that is how games just are, but still...
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Neonivek

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #537 on: April 05, 2015, 06:43:38 am »

Then again relative to the next two bosses?

I am guessing one of the reasons why I found the boss so hard was because I tended to stay at a certain section of the platforms, requiring an incredibly difficult running dash double jump in order not to be fried, with the electrical lasers going back the other way around that point, making you run into it.

There must have been something I was doing wrong, because my platforming skills aren't bad... and those lasers moved faster then my character could move at times.

Skyrim has the same problem with the dragons, the dragons do the same thing over and over. Maybe that is how games just are, but still...

Not really. There are plenty of games that break that mold. Mind you Nintendo still does it, but not all games.

Though the major reason why enemies often use the same patterns, other than it being easier and quicker to program, is because if an enemy had 100 attacks none of them could be particularly hard to deal with because it would be impossible to master all of them.

---

Well the fourth boss was surprisingly harder

Though the only thing that ticked me off about him was that he basically required a melee elemental weapon... but then again the only reason I didn't have a one handed version of that was because I was tired of grinding for one so I only have myself to blame.

---

Question time:

Does anyone know a good low population server?

No surprise but I recently started playing again to play with a friend who got this. He and his younger brother and hopefully me would like to play together and I am wondering if any of you know a good server off hand.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 03:14:50 pm by Neonivek »
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #538 on: April 14, 2015, 10:29:55 pm »

I can't really get into the game since the introduction of the missions, I've cheated my way past the Erchius boss on my main and done the rest of the content (tho' I am not going to keep randomly searching planets for the stupid crap the NPCs want for quests), and I just don't feel good about playing that way.  If I can't hack it with the boss then I probably shouldn't be moving on, but gods be damned I just cannot manage the boss at all, unless I'm even more of a bastard and use late-tier equipment.  The part I really don't get is that the rest of the missions are very easy in comparison to the Moonbase, maybe because I can actually move around with some level of freedom.

I'm really, really, happy that Bay 12 is the forum I spend my time on, the Starbound forums are full of some seriously messed up netpunks.  In all 32 years of my life I have never been called a liar by someone who knows absolutely nothing about me, for trying to clarify a statement I made about something.  Told that I am wrong, yes, laughed at for not getting the joke on a couple of occasions (tho' not for very long...), but never called a liar by a complete stranger.  I really don't understand why the veil of anonymity turns people into mindless douchebags.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 10:34:54 pm by NullForceOmega »
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Darkmere

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe - WE STABLE NOW - Two and counting
« Reply #539 on: April 14, 2015, 10:41:12 pm »

That's because the CF forums have been culled by the mods down to complete morons and/or children who don't know any better. It's a wretched hive of scum.
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