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[Cryoshakespeare]

Very happy to see how this is going Grimlocke, I had added to the discussion on this a while back and it looks like fantastic work you've done. Starting a new DF spree, so this and the DF revised mod are a necessity.

I'm going to be raw installing them on top of the LNP, is that advisable? (I suppose for now I'll just have to try and see myself )

[Grimlocke]

Dropping this and Revised on LNP should work just fine, neither mods really do anything with the graphics or utility side of things.

So yeah, enjoy the dorf spree!

[Frank2368]

Hey thanks for the mod, I love historical equipment so I'm loving it. I have a minor gripe.

Does the bevor actually protect the neck? Doesn't the body armor already protect the neck gameplaywise? So shouldn't bevors already be a part of the cuirass?

If I'm not mistaken that means sallet/kettle + bevor is simply better than Armet/Barbute/Hounskull since the game thinks that sallets and bevors are two seperate helmets worn over each other when in reality they don't really overlap at all. It's only slightly less effective than bascinet + greathelm due to slightly lower coverage values.

Not a big problem but it seems like an inconsistency that doesn't represent reality.

[Grimlocke]

Fair points, and I completely agree! However, this was the best I could come up with giving the game's severe limitations on helmets (such as their inability to cover more than just the head).

Bevors also function as lower face armor, which is all I can make them do in this mod. I could rename plate armor to 'plate armor and bevor', but that would make it unable to cover the head. It would also no longer be a convenient add-on item to existing armor sets. Making an armor piece that only covers the neck is sadly impossible.

Ingame, kettle/sallet + bevor still has a small (2% i believe) chance of rolling no coverage at all, accounting for the gap left between the two. DF's coverage works a bit weird in that wearing two 80% coverage items results in a large chance of two layers of armor being hit, a smaller chance of only one being hit and a small chance of the attack bypassing both items completely. There is no way to make two non-100% coverage items give 100% coverage. Full helmets like the armet right now have the advantage of always giving full coverage and being somewhat less of a hassle.

I'm hoping Toady will expand a bit on the armor system at some point in the future. Once I get back into actually modding again I want to use DFhack to add various debuffs to armor pieces such as increased fatigue by weight, lowered agility for plate armor and reduced observation/weapon handling skill for full helmets that impair sight and breathing. They won't be massive debuffs, but will make medium-weight armor such as mail+brigandine+kettle have at least some edge over the heavier sets, as they historically had. I don't think DFhack will be able to cure the layering issues, but will at least take a poke at that too.

[DaSwayza]

Got a few more questions:

First: Is the only way to obtain steel bars using the metallurgy mod by case-hardening them, or am I missing something?

Second: I would like to put together a skirmishing force specifically for were-creatures. What is the lightest whole-coverage armor I can outfit them with?

[Grimlocke]

Case hardening so far is the only clearly described process for making steel I have been able to find. In some cases they only case hardened a already forged product, but that wouldn't work too well with the vanilla forge. I am not sure whether it was possible to fine pig iron only enough for it to be steel, or that that would leave too many impurities in the metal for that to work. I really ought to pick up an actual book about this subject at some point...

As for lightest armor, I guess that would be gambeson, padded coif and mail mittens/chausses. You can replace the mittens with sleeves and add a brigandine and helmet for some better protection, but cloth armor should suffice for most were-beasts that are not bloody weremammoths. Nothing protects you from the weremammoths.

[pikachu17]

Can were-cavemen save you from the were-mammoths?

[Grimlocke]

Only with sufficient ☼pointy sticks☼ while penned in behind fortifications to keep them from charging in and getting turned into were-paste.

[Amostubal]

Reaction descriptions are on the to-do list, should be done for the next update.

I might modify the make charcoal powder reaction to be able to use more than one type of container (was considering jugs, a container that can be sealed would make sense). It can indeed be a bit of a hassle with having to make new bags due to sand and food also using bags.

hey bro... I saw this and agreed, here's a bit that I added to my version.

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:GLASS->-GLASS_POWDER_2]
[NAME:grind up raw glass(jug)]
[BUILDING:QUERN:CUSTOM_S]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:raw glass:1:ROUGH:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[GLASS_MATERIAL]
[REAGENT:jug:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG:NONE:NONE]
[EMPTY]
[PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:raw glass:NONE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:jug]
[SKILL:MILLING]

[REACTION:CHARCOAL->-CHARCOAL_POWDER_2]
[NAME:grind charcoal into powder(jug)]
[BUILDING:QUERN:CUSTOM_S]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:charcoal:150:BAR:NONE:COAL:CHARCOAL]
[REAGENT:jug:1:TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG:NONE:NONE]
[EMPTY]
[PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:COAL:CHARCOAL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:jug]
[SKILL:MILLING]


[Grimlocke]

Oh, cool stuff! I kinda completely forgot about that.

I will get back properly into modding... perhaps December, this month is going to be a bit busy for me.

[Amostubal]

That's cool, I found the code fix for the meteoric iron also earlier in this post, so my end looks really good and its meshing with everything perfectly... all errors 0, 1 interesting thing I've noticed is that because of the collarbones being designated as a "limb"?!? am I saying that correctly... along with some other body plan changes... so here is a list of things anyone who is installing this needs to know:

Mod Creature Failures:
1.  These kind of lines will fail in creature generation after installing this, since cheeks are now internal:

Code: [Select]

[TISSUE_LAYER_OVER:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:XXXXX]some mods have these several ZM5 modes have these also you can't color cheeks anymore so these lines fail too:

Code: [Select]

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:WHITE:1:BLACK:1:RED:1:YELLOW:1:GREEN:1:BLUE:1:TEAL:1:PURPLE:1:PINK:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:cheek markings:PLURAL]
2.  Since the new collarbone is a required to have tissue thickness since its considered a limb, not defining the bone parameters will fail, lines like these:

Code: [Select]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:STONE:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
which some mods use to give a unit stone skin but nothing else useful will need to be modded to:

Code: [Select]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:STONE:NONE:NONE:STONE:NONE]
basically any creature that gives you an error for tissue layer thickness this is why its doing it and its probably an oddity creature like a stone golem or wood sprite that needs a bone layer to be identified for the collarbone to have thickness.

Modded Entity Errors:
The following items were replaced in grimlocke's mod; here's the list and what you should replace it with as a best guess for similarity/utility:

Code: [Select]

[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE] -> [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_BOLLOCK]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT_TRAINING] -> [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BASTARD_TRAINING]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES] -> [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SPLINTED]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS] -> [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_MAIL:COMMON] & [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_CHAUSSE:COMMON]

And the only other oddity in the whole code, a typo in the item_weapon.txt from grimlocke, you will find it in several items, and if you read battle reports, you will be WTF?

Code: [Select]

grab your with blade both hands and strikeneeds to be:

Code: [Select]

grab your blade with both hands and strike
Thanks for the code Grimlocke! thats' the only bit of additional information I've gathered from working with your mod and combining it with other people's mods. 

[Grimlocke]

Oh nice, this should be pretty useful for anyone else trying to combine this mod with other ones.

That typo though... Not sure how that eluded me for so long.

I'm kind of wondering why you would do [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:STONE:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE] though, that would also leave all bodyparts such as ribs, organs, etc without a material (though I guess you could make a stone golem with meaty organs... bit creepy). If the goal is to make every bodypart stone, you could just do [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:STONE]

Edit: added a link to your post in the OP

[Amostubal]

Oh nice, this should be pretty useful for anyone else trying to combine this mod with other ones.

That typo though... Not sure how that eluded me for so long.

I'm kind of wondering why you would do [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:STONE:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE] though, that would also leave all bodyparts such as ribs, organs, etc without a material (though I guess you could make a stone golem with meaty organs... bit creepy). If the goal is to make every bodypart stone, you could just do [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:STONE]

Edit: added a link to your post in the OP

not my work, I'm guessing if it has body parts even if they are stone bones stone meat etc, they will function as such? not sure they aren't my expertise.  My expertise is tracking down the source of errors in code and creating scripts & reactions for entities.   apparently no other body part matters as they have skin already and don't need a thickness... I think the collarbone issue is that its basically the start of limbs? as they extend from the torso, even though they are internal, so if you don't give them a bone material they wont have any tissues for thickness, since they don't have muscle, skin, or fat.  the rest of the limbs are fine without it as the skin covers all those layers.  personally the few times I've made golems I just put the same material in each instead of none... but I'm working with other people's work.

[Grimlocke]

personally the few times I've made golems I just put the same material in each instead of none...

Heh, I'm guessing that would result in combat reports like 'Urist bashes the golem in the arm, shattering the stone, shattering the stone and cracking the stone!' as the game is going to see each of those arguments as different layers.

Any bodyparts with no tissues on them will cause some weirdness somewhere down the line though, if only combat reports of attacks 'passing right through'. What I'm suspecting is that the golem just didn't use any bodyparts that wouldn't have any skin on them (so no organs, ribs, skulls, etc). That should give the exact same result as just telling the game to throw a tissue on every single bodypart, unless of course someone starts messing with the default bodypart sets...

[ANickel]

Has anybody tested if this still works with 44.02?