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[Zangi]

One of the older Unreal Tournament games had decent AI opponents(by my standards, I ain't too great an FPS player)... With smacktalk and everything.  Too bad that stuff ain't common.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Well, it depends on the kind of game you're playing.

Which kind of games throw freebies to the player, and which do not?

[Graknorke]

In shooters the enemy AI is less able to perform the same movements, have the weapon variety, or understand the strategy used by the player.
In strategy games the AI is more stupid than the player, and so is at a disadvantage.
(what other genres have AI that you compete against?)

[Caz]

One of the older Unreal Tournament games had decent AI opponents(by my standards, I ain't too great an FPS player)... With smacktalk and everything.  Too bad that stuff ain't common.

WITNESS MY PERFECTION

[penguinofhonor]

Gameplay doesn't disappear if everybody else is as strong as the player.

Fun does not disappear when the player ceases to be a demigod in a land of ordinary mortals with special help from RNGesus.

My main objection is that earlier somebody said that the reason many games give the player freebies and elevate him above everybody else is that gameplay would suffer otherwise. I thought that that was a strange assumption to make when some games gave the player no advantages and still were somehow not ruined.

I did not say putting the player on equal footing will ruin your game. I said some games give the player an advantage because they're more fun that way. That doesn't mean every game should.

[Neonivek]

It really just depends on the game, there is no formula to how the main character should be in a videogame or how the game world should work with them.

A lot of games that just give you a severe disadvantage compared to everyone else are extremely fun.

[Urist Tilaturist]

In shooters the enemy AI is less able to perform the same movements, have the weapon variety, or understand the strategy used by the player.
In strategy games the AI is more stupid than the player, and so is at a disadvantage.
(what other genres have AI that you compete against?)

My objection was not to the AI being dumber than the player, but when it was actually handicapped (cannot use health kits, worse weapons, scripted to always do exactly the same thing and so on). Of course the player will usually be smarter than the AI, but some were saying that the AI was actually disadvantaged deliberately in some cases.

[Graknorke]

A good number of those things are core for a stealth game to work. If the AI didn't act in a predictable way then whether you succeeded or failed would be pretty much random.

[scrdest]

It really just depends on the game, there is no formula to how the main character should be in a videogame or how the game world should work with them.

A lot of games that just give you a severe disadvantage compared to everyone else are extremely fun.

I disagree: I *hate* losing to an AI that is a cheating bastard, which the disadvantage tends to be - the computer magicooly having Fantasy Magical Spy Satellite, or gathering resources faster or what have you.

On the other hand, a disadvantage as in 'you're on equal footing but with less resources', such as, say, starting as a count in Crusader Kings, is fine.

[Neonivek]

You are referring to just flat out bad game design.

If the AI is cheating and you feel cheated... then that isn't really appropriate. OR it is just a compromise because the AI cannot be improved as with most very early RTS games.

AI War for example... the AI cheats like MAD! but that is intentional, the AI is meant to cheat. It always has resources and abilities you will never be able to obtain. In fact you can even select how much of a cheating bastard the AI will be.

Yet that isn't the flaw of the game. You are playing because the AI cheats like mad.

Likewise in Doom enemies go down rather quickly and you can blow through a lot of them in rather quick succession, as they do not have your intense stamina and health. While enemies rarely have your firepower. Is that a flaw?

Well no, the game isn't meant to have that sharp a edge. You are meant to use your resources skillfully over many enemies... and the game is a LOT more fun then the alternative.

[Urist Tilaturist]

A good number of those things are core for a stealth game to work. If the AI didn't act in a predictable way then whether you succeeded or failed would be pretty much random.

Why? You are still smarter than the AI even if nobody has handicapped it. In multiplayer games, the enemy's actions can still be predicted, but not with certainty. In the same way, predicting the actions of an AI not on rails is possible, the player just cannot be certain. The uncertainty adds suspense and challenge to the game.

[Graknorke]

A good number of those things are core for a stealth game to work. If the AI didn't act in a predictable way then whether you succeeded or failed would be pretty much random.

Why? You are still smarter than the AI even if nobody has handicapped it. In multiplayer games, the enemy's actions can still be predicted, but not with certainty. In the same way, predicting the actions of an AI not on rails is possible, the player just cannot be certain. The uncertainty adds suspense and challenge to the game.

Because a stealth game is a puzzle game with a paintjob that you can relate to in real terms. If you make the actions more random then you can't be sure that it won't become unsolvable.

[Neonivek]

Because in real life stealth is pretty much impossible the way it is shown in games.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Because a stealth game is a puzzle game with a paintjob that you can relate to in real terms. If you make the actions more random then you can't be sure that it won't become unsolvable.

I have no idea what a stealth game is anymore. I thought they were mostly about jumping around, winning unfair fights with big numbers of handicapped enemies, and not being very stealthy at all. Maybe the people I saw playing Assassin's Creed were the wrong sort of players...

If they want to be puzzle games, should they not just be so openly?

[Arx]

I wouldn't call AssCred a stealth game. Metal Gear comes to mind.