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[Caz]

Statistically, that is not how it plays out. As in, if you retaliate against your abuser, you go to jail for longer. You will serve longer prison sentences for hurting a stranger than your wife or girlfriend. there is a 3% conviction rate on rape. Domestic violence conviction rates are abysmally low.

That's not really the same comparable scenario, though. If you're comparing such things, you need to compare the conviction and punishment rates for domestic abuse man on woman vs woman on man, and then move onto stuff like fights male vs male and female vs female. The conviction rate for rape on males is similar to that of females. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

Did you really ask how are women an oppressed minority? I don't know how to answer that because I can only assume you live in a Bizarro version of Earth and are just visiting.

Maybe if you go to the Middle East, but I live in Europe. It's rather nice here. Where are you from?

[smeeprocket]

Your choice of words is off there, I think. Women are not a minority, certainly not by a significant margin. Oppressed I can accept, but not minority.

Also, please don't insult people's grasp of reality just because they disagree with you.

Minority doesn't generally refer to a numerical minority. It is not necessarily literal.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me, it is this continued erasure of the problem. It's, frankly, insulting and demeaning.

[Caz]

Minority doesn't generally refer to a numerical minority. It is not necessarily literal.

...That's actually exactly what it means.

[TripJack]

minority absolutely does generally refer to a numerical minority

[Arx]

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me, it is this continued erasure of the problem. It's, frankly, insulting and demeaning.

That doesn't justify insulting people in response. Please consider their feelings, even if they don't consider yours.

Which is not to say I disagree with you. I agree with many of your points, and I hope I'm not pressuring you - what with all the people posting right now.

[Caz]

even if they don't consider yours.

Am I that bad?

[smeeprocket]

Statistically, that is not how it plays out. As in, if you retaliate against your abuser, you go to jail for longer. You will serve longer prison sentences for hurting a stranger than your wife or girlfriend. there is a 3% conviction rate on rape. Domestic violence conviction rates are abysmally low.

That's not really the same comparable scenario, though. If you're comparing such things, you need to compare the conviction and punishment rates for domestic abuse man on woman vs woman on man, and then move onto stuff like fights male vs male and female vs female. The conviction rate for rape on males is similar to that of females. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

Did you really ask how are women an oppressed minority? I don't know how to answer that because I can only assume you live in a Bizarro version of Earth and are just visiting.

Maybe if you go to the Middle East, but I live in Europe. It's rather nice here. Where are you from?

I'm from America, and the Middle East has had numerous countries with female leaders, so they are actually ahead of us in some instances. I don't think using them as a shadowy "you could be subservient to THOSE guys, consider yourself lucky ladies," is acceptable.

Domestic violence and rape specifically targets women. Not in that there are no men victims, but such an overwhelming number of them are women and it is so normalized and trivialized that when you are sensationalizing violence against women, it becomes an issue.

So yes, the comparison is valid. Not to mention that most of the time, women are targeted specifically because they are women.

[smeeprocket]

minority absolutely does generally refer to a numerical minority

god, we're playing the semantics game again.

For the purposes of this argument let's just agree that referring to women as a minority, in that they have minimal control in the heteropatriarchy, minimal representation, and minimal respect, is okay.

[Virtz]

God almighty, Smeep.

"It's okay for women to beat the shit out of men. The opposite is not! It's obvious!"

It's not okay to get violent against anyone in reality (barring consensual arrangements, of course). It's not ok for men to get violent with women. It's not okay for men to get violent with other men. It's not ok for women to get violent with men. It's hypocritical to ask for restraint of others while exercising none yourself.

If you want to promote equality, you're gonna have to take the good with the bad. It's not equality otherwise.

Society takes violence against men a lot more seriously.

Not if it's done by a woman. Some media will even celebrate it then without looking into who was at fault.

However, there are instances where it's still messed up.

Such as the Resident Evil done in Africa where you are a white male killing scores of black zombies.

Like I said, you are not playing in a vacuum. Normalizing violence against an oppressed minority, which is something that is only not quite acceptable (and oftentimes pretty acceptable) to society is different from white dudes unloading on each other. That's an equal playing field.

So it didn't count when it was European hispanics being killed by a US guy in Resident Evil 4? It's only skin colour that counts?

[Caz]

I'm from America, and the Middle East has had numerous countries with female leaders, so they are actually ahead of us in some instances. I don't think using them as a shadowy "you could be subservient to THOSE guys, consider yourself lucky ladies," is acceptable.

Why're you putting words into my mouth? I was saying that I live in a country where women are legal and social equals to men. If you live in the USA, you should understand this also.

Domestic violence and rape specifically targets women. Not in that there are no men victims, but such an overwhelming number of them are women and it is so normalized and trivialized that when you are sensationalizing violence against women, it becomes an issue.

So... because there's fewer cases of abuse against men, they don't matter?

[smeeprocket]

God almighty, Smeep.

"It's okay for women to beat the shit out of men. The opposite is not! It's obvious!"

It's not okay to get violent against anyone in reality (barring consensual arrangements, of course). It's not ok for men to get violent with women. It's not okay for men to get violent with other men. It's not ok for women to get violent with men. It's hypocritical to ask for restraint of others while exercising none yourself.

If you want to promote equality, you're gonna have to take the good with the bad. It's not equality otherwise.

Society takes violence against men a lot more seriously.

Not if it's done by a woman. Some media will even celebrate it then without looking into who was at fault.

However, there are instances where it's still messed up.

Such as the Resident Evil done in Africa where you are a white male killing scores of black zombies.

Like I said, you are not playing in a vacuum. Normalizing violence against an oppressed minority, which is something that is only not quite acceptable (and oftentimes pretty acceptable) to society is different from white dudes unloading on each other. That's an equal playing field.

So it didn't count when it was European hispanics being killed by a US guy in Resident Evil 4? It's only skin colour that counts?

you realize the US is one of the only countries that actually had a racial category for Spanish people. We are THAT troubled by even slightly dusky skin.

I never played Resident Evil 4, I don't think that would make my example any less valid.

Look, I am not lauding female violence against men, don't be silly.

I'm saying that if a woman hits a man, he can shrug it off, but he will break her face. It's like saying depicting violence against children is okay because depicting violence against adults is okay. When the person involved is physically weaker, violence against them is bad.

And as for women getting celebrated for hurting men, I refer back to my statement that women spend much longer in jail for retaliating against their abusers than the abuser will spend for hurting them. SO this is not the case, at all.

[10ebbor10]

edit: I still don't fully understand this part of the article "As noted by the EEDAR's studies, a whopping 51% of HD-gen games feature playable female characters -- a massive contrast to the male-dominated 90%, but a number that shows undeniable progress on behalf of the video game industry's efforts to appeal to ever-expanding demographics." what is the 90% number for and what is HD-gen?

Simple.

51% of the games have female playable characters, 90% have a male playable characters. From which we can deduce:

10% Female only
49% male only
41% male and female characters

HD-gen is simply short for High Definition Generation, ie modern games.

[Reelya]

what is the 90% number for and what is HD-gen?

90% of games have a male character you can choose, and 51% of games have a female player you can choose. Those are the current numbers (about half the games on the market are gender-choice ones thus there is a huge overlap between ones with male characters and ones with female characters)

HD-gen is an abbreviation for "High-definition generation of console video games" which specifically refers to the PS3, XBOX360 and Wii generation which all work with HDTVs, because this research came out a few years ago before the new gen consoles.

[smeeprocket]

I'm from America, and the Middle East has had numerous countries with female leaders, so they are actually ahead of us in some instances. I don't think using them as a shadowy "you could be subservient to THOSE guys, consider yourself lucky ladies," is acceptable.

Why're you putting words into my mouth? I was saying that I live in a country where women are legal and social equals to men. If you live in the USA, you should understand this also.

Domestic violence and rape specifically targets women. Not in that there are no men victims, but such an overwhelming number of them are women and it is so normalized and trivialized that when you are sensationalizing violence against women, it becomes an issue.

So... because there's fewer cases of abuse against men, they don't matter?

you are also putting words in my mouth, I never said those cases don't matter. I am saying they are significantly less common and not the kind of epidemic violence against women is.

I do not feel that we live in the same reality because I do not experience this equality that you do. I look at the number of women in leadership, the general attitude of society, the way society treats rape and depicts women in the media and hollywood, the things we value in women and our messages to them and to girls, and I do not see equality.

[Rolan7]

Calling women a "minority" because they're (supposedly) disenfranchised is just wrong, sorry...  There are a lot of cases where a minority oppresses others.  The whites in South Africa, for example.  Or the 1% here in America.  Minority groups due tend to suffer oppression but it's not a synonym for being oppressed.

Edit: I may have misread the paper, checking
Edit2: I read it right, it's saying that abusers get arrested and convicted more often than many think

Statistically, that is not how it plays out. As in, if you retaliate against your abuser, you go to jail for longer. You will serve longer prison sentences for hurting a stranger than your wife or girlfriend. there is a 3% conviction rate on rape. Domestic violence conviction rates are abysmally low.

http://cjr.sagepub.com/content/34/1/44.abstract

Did you quote the wrong paper?  That one seems to be attempting to refute your point:

Our review of 135 English language studies leads us to challenge the widely accepted notion that prosecution and conviction for this offense are infrequent. There is great variability in the reported rates of prosecution and conviction for intimate partner violence. These studies report that, on average, about one third of the reported offenses and more than three fifths of arrests result in the filing of charges; more than half of all prosecutions result in a criminal conviction.