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[smeeprocket]

Not all men is just sexist all over to the extent that even people who reference it are sexist (especially if you read what they say).

yes that is my point.

It's a decoy. It controls the conversation. The only people that want to hear that in every post, are probably the people I'm talking about. (no I'm not accusing you of being that kind of person.)

[Reelya]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations

The white stolen generations are so-called to distinguish them from the indigenous stolen generations. It is estimated that around 250,000 Australian born non-Indigenous children were removed from their mothers from the 1930s to 1982 in what was widely seen by society as a whole at the time as a positive thing for both the mothers and the children. The mothers were sometimes drugged, tied to beds or told their babies had died. Many hospitals engaged in what is now known as institutionalised baby farming, whereby those children deemed "inferior" were taken and adopted into the middle class.

250,000 white children affected in the same way. So it was clearly more of a class-based set of policies than a specific thing for one race. The number of white Australian children taken from their parents in similar circumstances is orders of magnitudes larger than for indigenous Australians.

[Neonivek]

Not all men is just sexist all over to the extent that even people who reference it are sexist (especially if you read what they say).

yes that is my point.

It's a decoy. It controls the conversation. The only people that want to hear that in every post, are probably the people I'm talking about. (no I'm not accusing you of being that kind of person.)

No, I mean EVERYONE!

As in even when a person brings it up for being sexist... they are usually being sexist at the same time.

It brought out the worst in men, women, society, feminism, egalitarianism, and everything else.

It created the equally sexist tag

#Yesallmen

[Elephant Parade]

If you actually witness threats being sent, you should do everything you can to stop it. If you hear about it afterwards, you should report it to the appropriate authorities, if you have proof. If you don't, and there are no authorities, there's not much you can do, other than spread the word.

A comparison: the homeless problem. You don't run around giving money to homeless people, because it wouldn't really solve the problem; even if you managed to get one person a home, a thousand others would still be homeless - it would be a drop in the bucket, just as getting one threat-sender banned would be*.

If you don't see any problems you can actually solve, you're not part of the problem; you're unrelated.

*Obviously, if you can get someone who sends threats banned, you should. The comparison is more valid for times in which you don't have proof/it's difficult to get them banned for other reasons. It's also a bit better for borderline sexism, which frequently isn't enforced.

[Reelya]

Also The pintupi nine were the last, I thought. Actually, I was reading a biology book by Dawkins (sexist pig that I learned he is) about them being gone for good.

The pintupi nine have nothing to do with pure blood / mixed blood. They were "The last Pintupi to leave their traditional lifestyle in the desert, in 1984" which is what they were famous for. But they didn't die either: there are still Pintupi alive and well today. This is also nothing to do with aboriginal tribes in general, Pintupi is just one local tribe.

And are you sure Dawkins wasn't specifically referring to Tasmanian Aboriginals? Since that is a well-known specific genocide. If the name "Truganini" means anything to you, she was the last surviving Tasmanian Aboriginal.

[smeeprocket]

If you actually witness threats being sent, you should do everything you can to stop it. If you hear about it afterwards, you should report it to the appropriate authorities, if you have proof. If you don't, and there are no authorities, there's not much you can do, other than spread the word.

A comparison: the homeless problem. You don't run around giving money to homeless people, because it wouldn't really solve the problem; even if you managed to get one person a home, a thousand others would still be homeless - it would be a drop in the bucket, just as getting one threat-sender banned would be*.

If you don't see any problems you can actually solve, you're not part of the problem; you're unrelated.

*Obviously, if you can get someone who sends threats banned, you should. The comparison is more valid for times in which you don't have proof/it's difficult to get them banned for other reasons. It's also a bit better for borderline sexism, which frequently isn't enforced.

First off, I totally do give money to homeless people. Every chance I get, and I'm not rich. Dear god, even one person getting food in their belly more than there were before is a net positive.

Second, you don't understand the scope of the problem. This is in games, it is out of games. I couldn't get the one guy in trouble because most of our convos were on AIM, when I and another women got him blocked from reentry into the city, and a then a friend of his took over leadership, we explained to him the problem, he immediately told the guy who put in a petition because our reasons were ooc (it was an rp enforced environment) fortunately we covered our asses by having a solid in game reason. Of course, his friend inducted him again anyway.

You are effectively washing your hands of a problem that you have the power to shut down. What I'm saying is, if you educate yourself and then pay attention, some of the problem will reveal itself, and you will be in a position to help the situation and make gaming a better environment for women as a whole.

[smeeprocket]

Not all men is just sexist all over to the extent that even people who reference it are sexist (especially if you read what they say).

yes that is my point.

It's a decoy. It controls the conversation. The only people that want to hear that in every post, are probably the people I'm talking about. (no I'm not accusing you of being that kind of person.)

No, I mean EVERYONE!

As in even when a person brings it up for being sexist... they are usually being sexist at the same time.

It brought out the worst in men, women, society, feminism, egalitarianism, and everything else.

It created the equally sexist tag

#Yesallmen

For there to be sexism there has to be a system of oppression to promote and give power to the acts involved. Misandry is utter bullshit.

The fact that you treat MRAs and feminists with the same stroke doesn't say anything good, at all.

[Reelya]

You are effectively washing your hands of a problem that you have the power to shut down.

Right after you point out how there was no way to shut that guy down. What are we meant to do about it that you couldn't?

"Having penis on internet" doesn't give us magical powers to do things other people cannot.

you could achieve the same as us by making a lot of sock puppets and pretending they're fellow men. Try that and see how effective it is. Roll up a lot of male avatars and get them to speak out. Do you think that would help? If so, then it's not outside your own powers.

[Neonivek]

For there to be sexism there has to be a system of oppression to promote and give power to the acts involved. Misandry is utter bullshit.

The fact that you treat MRAs and feminists with the same stroke doesn't say anything good, at all.

Are you just saying that because I am a man? If I was a woman would you think I mean something else?

Because I don't see any other reason why you would come to that conclusion. Notallmen makes everyone stupid. Regardless of race, gender, or credence.

[smeeprocket]

You are effectively washing your hands of a problem that you have the power to shut down.

Right after you point out how there was no way to shut that guy down. What are we meant to do about it that you couldn't?

"Having penis on internet" doesn't give us magical powers to do things other people cannot.

you could achieve the same as us by making a lot of sock puppets and pretending they're fellow men. Try that and see how effective it is.

That's the thing though, the community encouraged and enforced that behavior. We couldn't share what was happening with others because they would have been on his side. I couldn't kick him out of the city because the guys already didn't like me being a city leader and an authoritarian female (the girls they generally got along with were easy going and agreeable. I was playing a female version of Mengele, I was not going to be friendly.) The guys that guilted women into giving them pics or who passed pics to each other were well known and all respected.

These people were welcome in the community. No one ostracized them or spoke out about what they did. And we couldn't because it would have hurt only us.

[smeeprocket]

For there to be sexism there has to be a system of oppression to promote and give power to the acts involved. Misandry is utter bullshit.

The fact that you treat MRAs and feminists with the same stroke doesn't say anything good, at all.

Are you just saying that because I am a man? If I was a woman would you think I mean something else?

No there are feMRAs. The first MRA I ever talked to was one, actually. Confused the fuck out of me.

[Neonivek]

Just read a few YesAllMen stuff...

People used "Notallmen" as a sort of excuse for their own sexism.

---

Anyhow as far as videogames are concerned...

What EXACTLY do we want here anyhow?

Note that Gender selection leads to "character weak protagonists"

[smeeprocket]

Just read a few YesAllMen stuff...

People used "Notallmen" as a sort of excuse for their own sexism.

---

Anyhow as far as videogames are concerned...

What EXACTLY do we want here anyhow?

Note that Gender selection leads to "character weak protagonists"

Yea I disagree, but anyway

What do you mean gender selection leads to character weak protagonists? Are you saying to have women you have to sacrifice character? Or that having an option means there will be no character? Why is that exactly?

[Neonivek]

Well it is anecdotal but look at all the "Chose your protagonist" games.

Always your character is this sort of non-entity you can project into or with such a variable personality that they feel like they have no real personality to match.

There is something gained by having a character versus "chose your own protagonist"

It is why I always disambiguated whenever someone referenced the 50% male to female ratio. Because those never feature fully realized characters.

Sheppard is the closest but honestly... he doesn't have a set personality either.

Heck some games have even parodied this kind of protagonist. Soul Nomad makes fun of the fact that its main protagonist can't even speak.

[penguinofhonor]

Just read a few YesAllMen stuff...

People used "Notallmen" as a sort of excuse for their own sexism.

I'm pretty sure the tag was YesAllWomen.