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Author Topic: Females in Games? Thread  (Read 164440 times)

Arcvasti

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #870 on: December 21, 2014, 08:00:21 pm »

I think that's mostly because pregnancy takes forever. And gives you a substantial disadvantage to doing most adventurey stuff in its later stages. And then, afterwards, you have to take care of a dependent. None of which really mesh well with RPG-style games or similar.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #871 on: December 21, 2014, 08:05:31 pm »

...or so you say. Have you tried it? The player could not get pregnant if she wants to, either by using contraception of some sort (condoms and some other methods like withdrawal, rhythm and primitive douching existed in mediaeval times and were sometimes used despite religious dogma) or just by not having heterosexual intercourse.
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Reelya

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #872 on: December 22, 2014, 11:23:56 pm »

But then you're getting into the realms of a sex simulator purely to justify the "roleplaying a pregnant woman" thing. Throwing sex scenes into most game genres isn't going to work with the game design / concept. And you also have to add in game mechanics to manage the baby once it's born. So you have to make it a dating simulator, and an entire life simulator, with graphical composition for the child based on mother and father's genetics and visually updating the aging process. All these are non-trivial and basically will change the genre of most games competely. How is that going to work with e.g. a party-based RPG or a Diablo type game? Recreating the range of possibilities of "The Sims" in it's entirety inside your one-off RPG, just in case people decide to carry out non-core activities isn't really viable economically. That is why "The Sims" has zero market rivals. It's just not economically feasible for someone else to create something to compete with that.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 11:35:34 pm by Reelya »
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #873 on: December 23, 2014, 05:45:34 am »

No one would have said that DF was economically feasible. A free game with a 20 years development cycle? That will never work...

There is a bit of never say never here.
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Graknorke

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #874 on: December 23, 2014, 06:00:29 am »

No one would have said that DF was economically feasible. A free game with a 20 years development cycle? That will never work...

There is a bit of never say never here.
DF isn't being sold though, because of development costs of no more than the Adams' living costs and website hosting.

EDIT: Yeah there was something wrong with that wasn't there.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 09:07:42 am by Graknorke »
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #875 on: December 23, 2014, 08:48:48 am »

The Adams' living costs.

The DF team is small, but a small team can produce great results.

What defines a core activity? If other aspects of the game than slaughter have great depth (and slaughter gets some depth too), could they not too become core activities?
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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #876 on: December 23, 2014, 11:38:24 am »

Recreating the range of possibilities of "The Sims" in it's entirety inside your one-off RPG, just in case people decide to carry out non-core activities isn't really viable economically. That is why "The Sims" has zero market rivals. It's just not economically feasible for someone else to create something to compete with that.

I disgree and I'll give two reasons why. Please bear with me.

First, the sims are one of the most successfull videogame saga ever, not a niche product, and there are several lifetime simulator that actually compete with them (mount and blade, guild 2,...).

Second, you can tell aa pregnacy during a videogame instead of making a pregnancy simulator. For instance, you could have an AAA rpg about a sucessfull women general, with a first chapter being a steady rise to power, then a betrayal and a passage where you flee your palace pregnant and hunted, before making a glorious comeback in chapter 3. I'm sure the pregnancy aspect will deepen your emotional investment and be hailed as novel and refreshing.


So why isn't it done more? Because commercials are being told that their demographic are stupid and horny teens or menchilds by journalists.
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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #877 on: December 23, 2014, 02:24:10 pm »

Recreating the range of possibilities of "The Sims" in it's entirety inside your one-off RPG, just in case people decide to carry out non-core activities isn't really viable economically. That is why "The Sims" has zero market rivals. It's just not economically feasible for someone else to create something to compete with that.

I disgree and I'll give two reasons why. Please bear with me.

First, the sims are one of the most successfull videogame saga ever, not a niche product, and there are several lifetime simulator that actually compete with them (mount and blade, guild 2,...).

Second, you can tell aa pregnacy during a videogame instead of making a pregnancy simulator. For instance, you could have an AAA rpg about a sucessfull women general, with a first chapter being a steady rise to power, then a betrayal and a passage where you flee your palace pregnant and hunted, before making a glorious comeback in chapter 3. I'm sure the pregnancy aspect will deepen your emotional investment and be hailed as novel and refreshing.


So why isn't it done more? Because commercials are being told that their demographic are stupid and horny teens or menchilds by journalists.

So it's about ethics in journalism?  :P

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #878 on: December 23, 2014, 02:32:04 pm »

I think the point in this thread is to have:

Code: [Select]
More varied, fleshed out women in video games, on the scale that men are.

is it not?

Caz

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #879 on: December 23, 2014, 02:52:35 pm »

Yes, but it doesn't mean that every game needs to go crazy both ways.


Why can't we just have really boring characters of both genders?


We could replace all videogame characters with agender robots.
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Rolan7

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #880 on: December 23, 2014, 03:07:08 pm »

Lots of indie games do that.  Fez, for example.  It can work, particularly for minimalist-style games or games which don't emphasize characters (there was some arena combat game where the characters were robots...)
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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #881 on: December 23, 2014, 05:34:30 pm »

Personally I prefer fleshed out characters, the story line is a big deal for me. I want to relate to the character, also. But I think that is true of most people. Tabula rasa characters bore me to no end, but that isn't gender specific.

What troubles me is the backwards trend with female characters. The new Metroid and Tomb Raider, (though the creator for Metroid is the same dude.) Metroid Prime was much better, Samus was really badass in that I think. And then you have this new one where she's all "omgz babies and how can I faithfully serve my male superior even if it means my death!?" Come on!

Sometimes I feel like developers are actively attempting to drive women away. I wonder if some of them are the same angry gamer dude types that caused all this trouble with Gamergate. I suppose some of them would HAVE to be.

Also a big plus, not "developing" a female character by victimizing her. That seems to be a quick fix for developed female characters that I just don't like. I want powerful female characters. I want the same tough, unbreakable heroines that we see with heroes. I don't think it's too much to ask that this happens a decent amount of times.

BTW to combat misinformation posted previously, Here is a link to the demographics for candy crush saga. While Bejeweled is actually played much more by women, candy crush is somewhat evenly spread. I'm just going to start asking for sources on some of these claims as to what women gamers play.

http://developers.magmic.com/demographic-breakdown-casual-mid-core-hard-core-mobile-gamers/

Looking at CoD, there's almost no women playing. But there are definitely plenty of hardcore female gamers, and I think they'd jump on board if the marketing teams weren't busy pretending they were in Madmen and actually tried to appeal to that base.

Social gamers aren't really the same audience as hard and mid core gamers, anyway, so if you say "oh well it's mostly women that play bejeweled" you would be right, but do most women gamers play bejeweled? There's a difference there. (I don't have numbers on that, post them if you do.)

That said, once I'm interested in a game, personally, I don't always play the female character. I haven't liked the skills for any of the female borderlands characters, and have played Krieg, Salvador, Wilhelm, and will probably play Brick when I go back and play the first one. Krieg turned me on to Borderlands 2, so I guess more games would appeal to me if they added more mentally ill characters in them, if they, for some reason, don't want to include women. But that's just me.

FPSs are also kind of a difficult thing to get into. A lot of the men I know that play have been playing them since their teens. I briefly played Borderlands 1 as my first, then delved into 2 as my first real experience. While that is a seriously awesome starter FPS for someone unfamiliar with them, trying to dive into CoD with no FPS experience is just not fun. Team Fortress 2 is another good starter FPS if you don't mind dying a lot. (I play a spy anyway so it is expected.)

I realize a lot of this relates to me personally, and not all females, but I am also curious what other women think about this stuff. What appeals to you? Do you play or want to play FPSs? What kind of games and characters do you prefer?

Developers tell us we should want to play games that involve fashion and ponies, and that expectation doesn't seem to change when we grow up. I'm an adult, I play games to murder stuff or get engrossed in a story. Not brush and preen a horse for 30 minutes.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #882 on: December 23, 2014, 06:19:45 pm »

What troubles me is the backwards trend with female characters. The new Metroid and Tomb Raider, (though the creator for Metroid is the same dude.) Metroid Prime was much better, Samus was really badass in that I think. And then you have this new one where she's all "omgz babies and how can I faithfully serve my male superior even if it means my death!?" Come on!
This was gone over a bit earlier, but Metroid has a complex situation. The generally recognized creator of Metroid is one Yoshio Sakamoto, but while he claims to have always believed in the Other M portrayal of Samus this doesn't mesh with history. Fusion is the most damning element for this, since it is the setup for Other M, but in that the Adam AI and Samus are both given speaking roles which are far more in line with the non-Other M characterization of Samus. Why then, did Sakamoto not deploy "Samus as a mother figure and emotionally compromised shortstop" then?

I believe it is because Sakamoto either redesigned Samus's character after Prime 3, or that this was all a marketing gimmick. You see, Metroid has never sold particularly well in Japan. It is Nintendo's most American IP, and Samus' character has been generally recognized as the source of this popularity. Thus, the story goes, Nintendo/Sakamoto attempted to gain ground with their Japanese audience by changing Samus from the stone-cold badass space heroine to a demure and submissive Yamoto Nadeshiko-type who would fit the mold of what mainstream Japanese culture considers ideal womanhood. This is also responsible for the shocking shift in characterization for Adam, whom in Fusion is depicted as supportive of Samus' independent nature (he gets her to leave the Federation's employ to become a hunter, and then promptly signs her back onto their team a contractor) and values the safety of the soldiers under his employ above all else. However, in Japan the common conception of a military commander is somebody whom is rough but absolutely unquestionable, even if they are objectively wrong. Hence, Japanese-style Adam is a total jackass who resents Samus for going independent and feeds the people he commands into the meat grinder for the sake of completing The Mission.

Also, none of this worked. Other M sold about as horribly in Japan as it did in America, and Team Ninja even washed their hands of it later. Sakamoto also said he no longer has any desire to work on Metroid, which is very good for everybody.

It should be noted that Prime was made by Retro Games, and without Sakamoto's involvement, hence why he also has said that he doesn't like the Prime games very much.

So anyway, if Metroid ever manages to clear an executive funding meeting again Retro should be the ones getting the contract, and without Sakamoto's influence. I'm sort of hopeful, but that relies upon it not going the way of F-Zero or Kid Icarus in the meantime.
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Reelya

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #883 on: December 23, 2014, 06:21:15 pm »

http://online.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Top_5_Most_Popular_Online_Games_for_Women
The top 5 online games with women include Bejeweled 2, Farmville and Cake Shop 2. It also includes WoW in the top 5, but that is dwarfed by the Candy Crush numbers (half a million female WoW players vs ~60 million female Candy Crush players). PC / browser games are declining amongst women and mobile/tablet is taking over that segment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/arts/international/women-get-in-on-the-action-in-video-games.html
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Women, on the other hand, prefer so-called “casual” games that are easy to learn but complex to master, Mr. Warman said. The most popular franchise among women is the rhythm game “Just Dance,” designed for Nintendo’s Wii platform, in which players mimic dance moves set to popular songs by artists like Katy Perry and Kylie Minogue. The runner-up among women is the Candy Crush Saga, a puzzle game that has become ubiquitous on Facebook and smartphones. The game, which is played by around 90 million people

http://blog.games.com/2013/01/31/candy-crush-saga-facts/

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Casual games maker King.com really doesn't want you to forget that its hit match-3 game, Candy Crush Saga, is number one on Facebook. And what other way for a piece of software to celebrate wild success than with an infographic? (It's like the pinata of the tech and games world, really.) With that reasoning, this list of factoids about frequently-played Facebook game was born.

Some key takeaways from this incredibly colorful set of facts? Well, a whopping 69 percent of Candy Crush Saga players are women

There you have the 60 million female Candy Crush players, a number which dwarfs pretty much every other franchise. Even if the Candy Crush numbers are more even than e.g. Bejeweled, it's the sheer numbers of female players of Candy Crush that makes it "typical" of what an average woman plays. Plus they have "what's your favorite game?" survey data and Candy Crush was #2 for women in that. So for many more women than men, Candy Crush is their #1 game.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 06:34:54 pm by Reelya »
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smeeprocket

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #884 on: December 23, 2014, 06:42:40 pm »

http://online.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Top_5_Most_Popular_Online_Games_for_Women
The top 5 online games with women include Bejeweled 2, Farmville and Cake Shop 2. It also includes WoW in the top 5, but that is dwarfed by the Candy Crush numbers (half a million female WoW players vs ~60 million female Candy Crush players). PC / browser games are declining amongst women and mobile/tablet is taking over that segment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/arts/international/women-get-in-on-the-action-in-video-games.html
Quote
Women, on the other hand, prefer so-called “casual” games that are easy to learn but complex to master, Mr. Warman said. The most popular franchise among women is the rhythm game “Just Dance,” designed for Nintendo’s Wii platform, in which players mimic dance moves set to popular songs by artists like Katy Perry and Kylie Minogue. The runner-up among women is the Candy Crush Saga, a puzzle game that has become ubiquitous on Facebook and smartphones. The game, which is played by around 90 million people

http://blog.games.com/2013/01/31/candy-crush-saga-facts/

Quote
Casual games maker King.com really doesn't want you to forget that its hit match-3 game, Candy Crush Saga, is number one on Facebook. And what other way for a piece of software to celebrate wild success than with an infographic? (It's like the pinata of the tech and games world, really.) With that reasoning, this list of factoids about frequently-played Facebook game was born.

Some key takeaways from this incredibly colorful set of facts? Well, a whopping 69 percent of Candy Crush Saga players are women

There you have the 60 million female Candy Crush players, a number which dwarfs pretty much every other franchise. Even if the Candy Crush numbers are more even than e.g. Bejeweled, it's the sheer numbers of female players of Candy Crush that makes it "typical" of what an average woman plays. Plus they have "what's your favorite game?" survey data and Candy Crush was #2 for women in that. So for many more women than men, Candy Crush is their #1 game.

but 40% of candy crush's gaming demographic is male. So then, can we assume that most male gamers play candy crush saga?

Also, what is the split in numbers for both genders for social versus hardcore (and midcore) gaming?

I suspect that with the further accessibility of games, both genders saw a significant increase in casual gamers.

edit: MEtalSlimeHut, I hope you're right. I would like to see more Metroid games, and I want that strong female character back.
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